Engine Oil API Certification - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 22 Old 13-09-09 Thread Starter
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Engine Oil API Certification

Some of the engine oil that we use for pre 159 JTS engines like Agip and Selenia 10w-60 does not have API certification according to this link below. Wonder if the recommended oil is actually of good quality.

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There are at least 2 schools of thought on this.

One is that to get official API certification costs quite a bit of money. Many manufacturers make oil to the correct specs but don't get official certification to save money.

The other is that they are racing oils which contain additives to make them perform better, but these additives are not allowed if it is to meet the API or ACEA specs.

Personally if I had a choice between an API or ACEA certified oil and one which wasn't I would go with the certified one.

That's because it is a sign of uniform quality. There is nothing stopping an oil company marketing any old oil with "Racing" writted on the can. It could be a good oil or it could be a poor one at a high price.

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Last edited by symon; 13-09-09 at 16:57.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 22 Old 13-09-09 Thread Starter
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Trouble is when I look at the companies that are API certified (10w-60), I don't even know what are those brands. Haven't even heard of them.
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I hadn't heard of Redline or Royal purple until recently, but their oils are some of the best you can get.
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AGIP (ENI) probably know a bit aboot oil, whether it's certified or not!


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Always but an oil that is either API (American Certified) or even better ACEA (European Certified) if it isn't then stay well clear.

A1
Category for low-viscosity engine oils with particularly low High Temperature High Shear viscosity (< 3.5 mPas). Recommended viscosity grades are XW-30 and XW-20. A reduction in fuel consumption of = 2.5% compared to a 15W-40 reference oil must be proven in a Mercedes M 111 test engine.

A2
Category for conventional and low-viscosity engine oils.

A3
Category for conventional and low-viscosity engine oils with greater demands than ACEA A2. Out-performs ACEA A2 with regard to Noack (evaporation losses), piston cleanliness and oxidation stability.

A5 Testing as for ACEA A3 but with proven reduction in fuel consumption and lower HTHS viscosity.

New ACEA specifications were introduced in November 2004. In future, the specifications will apply in combination to both gasoline and diesel engines. Car gasoline (Car gasoline and diesel engines) and diesel engines Valid from 2004

A1/B1
Category for Fuel Economy engine oils with especially low High Temperature High Shear viscosity. HTHS of 2.6 to 3.5 mPas applies to XW-20, 2.9 to 3.5 mPas for all others. Corresponds to the old A1 and B1 specifications with some new engine tests.

A2/B2
Basic requirements. Will be replaced by the GLOBAL DLD-1 specification.

A3/B3
Category for high-performance and Fuel Economy engine oils. Exceeds ACEA A1/B1 with regard to Noack (evaporation losses), piston cleanliness and oxidation stability. Extended oil change intervals possible.

A3/B4
Same as A3/B3 but also for direct injection diesel engines.

A5/B5
Category for high-performance engine oils. For TDI engines with Fuel Economy Performance. In addition with lowered HTHS (2.9 to 3.5). Extended oil change intervals possible.

Engines LOW SAPS

An additional category appears in these specifications in which sulphate ash, phosphorous and sulphur content (SAPS) is limited.

C1
Largely based on the ACEA A5/B5. Strict limitation of SAPS content. Low HTHS viscosity of >2.9 mPas.

C2
Same as C1 but with somewhat higher SAPS content permissible (as with C3).

C3
Same as C2 except for HTHS > 3.5 and without Fuel Economy performance.

C4
Same SAPS content as C3, HTHS viscosity as C1.

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Splendid!


So we wants A5/B5 ideally then?


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Or A3/B3

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Doesn't A5/B5 sacrifice engine protection to give better fuel economy?

If the HTHS is lower to give better economy the engine is more at risk under demanding applications.

A3/B3 is a better choice IMO.
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(Post Link) post #10 of 22 Old 15-09-09 Thread Starter
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my GT JTS engine started with shell ultra 5w-40. when i switched to selenia 10w-60, the fuel consumption worsened. Strangely, i also noticed the engine oil dipping at the same pace as the 5w-40 after about 5000km. i'm starting to have my doubts about selenia as it's not API certified and also what i've experienced. Agip is not certified too so that leaves me no choice but to continue using them.
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You can buy ACEA/API certified 10w-60 oils..Gulf, Valvoline, Shell, Castrol all make them.
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but if the oil consumption doesn't go down by using 10w-60 there's no reason not to use 5w-40
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The JTS engine was tested an developed with Selenia racing, so no worries about API spec here - it just wasnt tested to it as its really only marketed for Fiat, Alfa and Maserati use - and its manufacturer tesed in each application.

WHy ise 5W40 when the manufacturer spec is 10W60?
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why sacrifice mpg (minor issue) and cold start protection by using a more expensive oil that offers no benefit?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj romeo View Post
The JTS engine was tested an developed with Selenia racing, so no worries about API spec here - it just wasnt tested to it as its really only marketed for Fiat, Alfa and Maserati use - and its manufacturer tesed in each application.

WHy ise 5W40 when the manufacturer spec is 10W60?
Because the only reason why 10w-60 is specified it to help reduce oil consumption.

Plus the only Fully synthetic oil marketed by Selenia at the time of the JTS's launch was a 10w-60

Alfa don't always know best, look at what happened with the 72k cambelt change interval.
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exactly, recommendations for oil brands are always severely tainted by the accounting department... Selenia = FIAT
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Selenia = Fiat Lubrificanti in the old days.. (post Olio-Fiat) but I think it was sold off in Fiat's financial re-structurings circa 2002. I don't think it's a Fiat company any more.


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maybe not 100% but the contractual ties are still there at least...
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i live in a summer climate so does this mean cold start protection is not needed? in any case, i was thinking of trying out 5w-50 mobil. anyone has any experience with it?
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I'm using 5W-50 Mobil1 on my 2.5.

I looks like that the oil consumption went to Zero (for now). However I don't know what oil was used before or how long it was in the engine (i started not to trust any so called (whatever car you buy) dealer anymore...)

Don't know anything about cold start since oil change was done in summer.

Oil is now in for about 2000km will check consumption randomly.
Fuel consumption is a hard nut right now because:

- i have some air leak on the intake runner couplers
- experimented with E85 fuel > my ECU need's to adjust to normal ROZ95 again so it's running a tad rich now
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cold start = oil temperatures below 60C... the closer you are to that when starting, the faster the oil will reach operating temp, but I believe it's clear everybody's car suffers from cold starts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
cold start = oil temperatures below 60C... the closer you are to that when starting, the faster the oil will reach operating temp, but I believe it's clear everybody's car suffers from cold starts
Totally agree.

You can minimise the effect though by using a thinner oil or by using an oil containing synthetic Ester, Ester has the ability to cling to metal surfaces creating a layer of protection before the oil has chance to circulate.


Not many companies make a 5w-50 oil, there is a large viscosity range which takes lots of viscosity modifiers or an expensive base stock to achieve. Viscosity modifiers can break down making the oil effectively a 5w-40 in a short time.

Also when they break down they can create deposits in the engine such as "Varnish".
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