2.0 Twinspark. Same engine in different models? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Hmmm 2.0 Twinspark. Same engine in different models?

Simple question. Is the 2.0 twinny in a 156 the exact same engine in the other 2.0 twinny's? Are the ancilliaries the same or is it the same block and head with an entirely different configuration?

Looking through a 145/146 engine manual and I'm not 100%.
Is there an Alfa model that does use the same engine config?
The inlet ducting is different but thought some of the techy folks here might answer straight off.
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There have been several iterations of the 16v Twinny, CF1, CF2 & CF3. In each case the block is virtually identical (some use different head gaskets for reasons I don't know) and are interchangable but the ancilleries differ. CF1 doesn't have variable inlet, CF3 has electronic throttle & 3 lambda's + pre-cat etc etc.

Therefore if your 145/146 is of around the same age then it is likely to have the same iteration of engine and therefore same ancilleries, if not then you can certainly swap the block and probably some of the ancilleries too.
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Cheers. Thats exactly what I was after.
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Certainly one of the major differences between CF1 and the later engines is the exhaust manifold. CF1 engines have the fifth pipe to the right of the manifold, this is the EGR pipe. Later engines did away with this and the work is done by the ECU. Certainly other ancilliaries may differ but this one is a major difference in set-up, as I say even affecting ECU!
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Certainly one of the major differences between CF1 and the later engines is the exhaust manifold. CF1 engines have the fifth pipe to the right of the manifold, this is the EGR pipe. Later engines did away with this and the work is done by the ECU. Certainly other ancilliaries may differ but this one is a major difference in set-up, as I say even affecting ECU!
My CF1 only has 4 pipes

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It would appear, as with all things Alfa..... that there is no single simple answer.
The service manual disc for the 156 is as good as useless, and elearn is no better.
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My CF1 only has 4 pipes

Indeed if this is fitted to your 156 then this TS did not have the fifth pipe. It was fitted though to the earlier TS engines in the 145/146 and 916 GTV/Spider. Certainly my Spider has the fifth pipe, will post a picture sometime tomorrow.
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No this is from my '97 CF1 GTV.

My 156 is a JTD
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Reading the worshop manual for the CF1, it states the EGR valve was only fitted to "certain cars" No idea what the criteria was but it appears that if your Twinspark engine has the EGR, it must be a CF1, but not all CF1's have the EGR!!!

This give a little more on the different engine types

http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_cf.shtml
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I'm trying to find an answer to the original question as well.

I have a 98 GTV with a blown 1970cc CF1 twin spark, engine code AR16201. Finding a replacement CF1 engine for me is near impossible, but plenty of 147 and 156 1970cc twin sparks around to use if they are suitable????.

I assume that the 156 and 147 engines are CF2 and CF3's. The short motor, being a fiat sourced block with two balance shafts, seems to be the same for all three engines.
BUT
variations seem to occur between the CF1, 2 and 3 engines in; the 16V head, both camshafts, and the inlet and exhaust manifolds. Different ECU units seem to be used to match the variations.

Can anyone definitely confirm that my findings are correct or let me know what the real story is?

I would really appreciate some help and clarification.
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Certainly one of the major differences between CF1 and the later engines is the exhaust manifold. CF1 engines have the fifth pipe to the right of the manifold, this is the EGR pipe.
Only the very early CF1 16v TS had that EGR pipe.
There are two versions of the CF1 ECU too, the ".3" version is EGR, the ".4" version isn't.

All CF1 are alloy topped with basic inlet manifold, but some have had the later plastic top retro-fitted.
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Originally Posted by AlfaFiatpug View Post
I'm trying to find an answer to the original question as well.

I have a 98 GTV with a blown 1970cc CF1 twin spark, engine code AR16201. Finding a replacement CF1 engine for me is near impossible, but plenty of 147 and 156 1970cc twin sparks around to use if they are suitable????
Yes,
but you will need to swap some external bits from your old engine to your new one.
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Thanks David C for your information.
Apart from swapping both manifolds - what other external bits would I need to swap?

also

Do all 1970cc twin sparks ie CF1, 2 and 3 versions as fitted in the GTV, 156 and 147 use the same camshafts? If not how are they different?
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you'd be best to swpa over everything that is electric... sensors, injectors etc unless they have the same part number... also the exhaust cam pulley might need changing...

yes there are at least 2 kinds of camshafts, see here:
Squadra Tuning
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OK folks I know this is an old thread but maybe someones still out there!! Along the same line will a '97/'98 146 1.8 T spark motor go into 2001 156 1.8 T spark? Is it also possible to swap the ECU to save swapping ancillary items/head? I know the 156 s/wagon engine is CF3 but i'm not sure what generation the 146 lump is at the moment. It would be nice not to start pulling the head off as the engine is a sweet little unit that doesn't drink oil at the moment!
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Originally Posted by Jason M-C View Post
OK folks I know this is an old thread but maybe someones still out there!! Along the same line will a '97/'98 146 1.8 T spark motor go into 2001 156 1.8 T spark? Is it also possible to swap the ECU to save swapping ancillary items/head? I know the 156 s/wagon engine is CF3 but i'm not sure what generation the 146 lump is at the moment. It would be nice not to start pulling the head off as the engine is a sweet little unit that doesn't drink oil at the moment!
The 146 will be either CF1 or 2 (CF1 alloy top, CF2 plastic top).
No you can't use the 1997 146 ECU in your 2001 156...!!

You don't need to swap the head anyway.
But you will need to swap a lot of external stuff, for a start I think the exhaust cam pulley and cam sensor if it is a CF1.
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Interesting thread thanks guys. Can you tell me on the picture of the engine, in between the injectors for ( I assume ) cylinders 1 & 2 is that the knock sensor?

Cheers Ive
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Interesting thread thanks guys. Can you tell me on the picture of the engine, in between the injectors for ( I assume ) cylinders 1 & 2 is that the knock sensor?
No, that is the variator solenoid.

The knock sensor is on the back of the engine block.
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Cheers Dave, can I cut into the wiring for the Knock sensor to take a feed for a dash mounted knock gauge or will I have to mount a new sensor?

Cheers Ive
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Or can I read it from an ODB plug in?

Ive
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the knock signal needs processing to be useful, but there's hardware about that can do that.

fitting a second knock sensor isn't really an option, the placing needs to be precise to get a reliable signal. high up on the block between cilinder 2 and 3...
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