1750 TBi & 2.0 JTDM 16V -- release date in UK? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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1750 TBi & 2.0 JTDM 16V -- release date in UK?

Anyone know when the new 1750 TBi and 2.0 JTDM 16v will be available to order in the UK? It's frustrating to see that both engines are available in Germany, but we don't have either the pricing or the availability date for the UK!
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I was speaking to the SGT Sales Dept yesterday and Phase 2 of the 159 is about to be released with the 2.0 JTDm 16v engine. It is rated at 170bhp. It was also confirmed that the Alfa Romeo twin turbo version of the 1.9 JTDm, rated at 189bhp, is now 'out of the window'.

So you can buy a Saab with the Fiat Group JTTD engine (rated at 180bhp) and yet get a 2.0 JTDm from Alfa with less power!

Can someone explain the sense of that please?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehdi76alfa View Post
Anyone know when the new 1750 TBi and 2.0 JTDM 16v will be available to order in the UK? It's frustrating to see that both engines are available in Germany, but we don't have either the pricing or the availability date for the UK!
Meds, as said earlier according to that Fiat internal Comms it will be mid July when they can start taking orders...But expect Oct/Nov delivery at the earliest!
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Meds, as said earlier according to that Fiat internal Comms it will be mid July when they can start taking orders...But expect Oct/Nov delivery at the earliest!
But I want it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now Now Now Now Now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Spider95 View Post
I was speaking to the SGT Sales Dept yesterday and Phase 2 of the 159 is about to be released with the 2.0 JTDm 16v engine. It is rated at 170bhp. It was also confirmed that the Alfa Romeo twin turbo version of the 1.9 JTDm, rated at 189bhp, is now 'out of the window'.

So you can buy a Saab with the Fiat Group JTTD engine (rated at 180bhp) and yet get a 2.0 JTDm from Alfa with less power!

Can someone explain the sense of that please?
Tis stupid that only Saab use the TTiD twin turbo. When it was released they said the 190 version was for Fiat group products only...well what products ??!
It was first shown in the Vectra OPC concept car with 230 brake-What happened to that version??!

Maybe theyre waiting for a twin turbo 2.0 JTD?

Last edited by typos1; 30-06-09 at 14:15.
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It's crazy that GM-based cars like Saab get the JTTD and Alfa won't get it at all. I think the 2.0 JTD makes sense at 170bhp, then if you'd had the twin turbo at 190bhp that would have slotted nicely before the 2.4 JTD at 210bhp.
Or perhaps the twin turbo may have made the 20v redundant?

When did Fiat Group marketing ever make sense???
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Lancia use the twin-Turbo JTD.
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Oh yeah, forgot about that-Lancia was all ready for a UK re-launch, then the credit crunch happened.

Who said Alfa wont get it at all?
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Dno if they'll sell the 2.0 JTDm like this, but at balocco I've seen a GT which was used to test this engine and it produced about 230bhp according one of the technicians...
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Whats Balocca a test rack or something?
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Baloco is FIAT's group testing circuit.

They are rumors about 2.0 Twin turbo multijet 220hp on Alfa Romeos....and no news on any new 2.4JTD..
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Theyre dropping the 5 cylinder. Theyre gonna replace it with a V6. Pity, they should have given it an aluminium block and twin turbos.
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Madness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider95 View Post
It's crazy that GM-based cars like Saab get the JTTD and Alfa won't get it at all. I think the 2.0 JTD makes sense at 170bhp, then if you'd had the twin turbo at 190bhp that would have slotted nicely before the 2.4 JTD at 210bhp.
Or perhaps the twin turbo may have made the 20v redundant?

When did Fiat Group marketing ever make sense???
I think you've touched on the problem there - too many engines in the range relatively close together in terms of output to be feasible to release. Especially in the middle of a recession! I mean what would be the point in this range:

2.0 JTDM 180 bhp
1.9 JTTD 190 bhp
1.8 TBI 200 bhp
2.4JTDM 210 bhp
3.2 V6 260bhp

I mean seriously, what's the point in having all those first 4! Okay you have to have at least one petrol and one diesel, but I reckon the 1.9 JTTD and the 2.0 JTDM are far too similar to release from one manufacturer. Makes much more sense like this:

Petrol Diesel
1.8TBI 200bhp 2.0 JTDM 180 bhp
3.2V6 260bhp 2.4 JTDM 210 bhp

Two petrol, two diesel, and an appreciable difference in output between each pair.

Brat Pack no.8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
I think you've touched on the problem there - too many engines in the range relatively close together in terms of output to be feasible to release. Especially in the middle of a recession! I mean what would be the point in this range

snip.....

I mean seriously, what's the point in having all those first 4! Okay you have to have at least one petrol and one diesel, but I reckon the 1.9 JTTD and the 2.0 JTDM are far too similar to release from one manufacturer. Makes much more sense like this:

Code:
Petrol                       Diesel
1.8TBI 200bhp           2.0 JTDM  180 bhp
3.2V6  260bhp           2.4 JTDM 210 bhp
Two petrol, two diesel, and an appreciable difference in output between each pair.
From a manufacturing viewpoint that is still to many, Alfa will likely following a similar strategy to the 1.4 to cut costs, one design many bolt ons I think thats how the new engines are supposed to be?

You'd more likely end up with a range like this

Code:
Petrol                       Diesel
1.8TBI 200bhp           2.0 JTDM  160 bhp
1.8TBI  235bhp          2.0 JTDM  190 bhp
1.8TTBi 270bhp         2.0 JTTDM 220 bhp
two designs into six differing specs, obviously I don't know what those specs would be but something like above would make sense throughout the range.

Last edited by sandys; 15-07-09 at 10:48.
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Obviously, I don't have any inside info either, but the above (1.8 Petrol and 2.0 Diesel) would make much more sense and be easily doable too.

The 5-cyl Diesel is too big & heavy and won't fit easily in half the range either, especially with new impact regs, same issues with a V6 unless it has a very short stoke.
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Surprised they're still going with the V6 diesel, as the 2.0 JTTDm at 220bhp should satisfy most people?
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Yeh, but they need a big diesel to power larger cars in Europe and now the US (who are just getting into diesels). Dont forget Fiat now owns Chrysler and its got to plan not just for Fiat/Alfa/Lancia/Abarth/Autobianchi but also for Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge. Plus now Porsche has a diesel (ok its only a tweaked VW/Audi unit but theyre selling it as a Porsche) it probably wont be long before Maserati uses a diesel in the Quatroporte and youd need at least 6 cylinders for that.

No probs with the V6 fitting as its quite common for Focus and Mondeo size cars to have V6s nowadays and there are plenty of front drive V6s about. Any Alfa larger than the Guilia (new 159) is likely to be rear drive now, so therell be no probs with 5s or 6s fitting there either. The only reason the 5 cylinder is too heavy is that its still got a iron block. Fiat group make great diesels, but theyre falling behind by not starting to use aluminium for the blocks when most other companies are using aly and saving 35kg (for s small 4 cyl)-60kg (for a 6) per engine. They ll fnd it harder to meet emmissions and economy targets with that extra weight.

Last edited by typos1; 15-07-09 at 14:25.
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So my company car scheme's website has been updated with the new engines and specs on the 159...

Petrol...
2.2 JTS in three trims...Elegante, Lusso, and TI
1.75 TBi in five trims...Turismo, Elegante, Turismo Sport, Lusso, and TI
3.2 V6 JTS in three trims...Elegante, Lusso, and TI

Diesel...
1.9 JTDM 8V ECO in two trims...Turismo, and Turismo Sport
1.9 JTDM 16v in five trims...Turismo, Turismo Sport, Elegante, Lusso, and TI
2.0 JTDM 16V in five trims...Turismo, Turismo Sport, Elegante, Lusso, and TI
2.4 JTDM in three times...Elegante, Lusso, and TI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandys View Post

You'd more likely end up with a range like this

Code:
Petrol                       Diesel
1.8TBI 200bhp           2.0 JTDM  160 bhp
1.8TBI  235bhp          2.0 JTDM  190 bhp
1.8TTBi 270bhp         2.0 JTTDM 220 bhp
two designs into six differing specs, obviously I don't know what those specs would be but something like above would make sense throughout the range.
SAab do something similar with thier diesels a 19 with 120, 150 and a twin turbo 180.
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Lol, yeah but SAAB diesels are Fiat diesels!
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That just makes it worse that they are not going in the 159 as the one in our saab is an absolute gem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehdi76alfa View Post
So my company car scheme's website has been updated with the new engines and specs on the 159...

Petrol...
2.2 JTS in three trims...Elegante, Lusso, and TI
1.75 TBi in five trims...Turismo, Elegante, Turismo Sport, Lusso, and TI
3.2 V6 JTS in three trims...Elegante, Lusso, and TI

Diesel...
1.9 JTDM 8V ECO in two trims...Turismo, and Turismo Sport
1.9 JTDM 16v in five trims...Turismo, Turismo Sport, Elegante, Lusso, and TI
2.0 JTDM 16V in five trims...Turismo, Turismo Sport, Elegante, Lusso, and TI
2.4 JTDM in three times...Elegante, Lusso, and TI
From what I've read, I thought that in revised range 2.2JTS is Selespeed only and the 2.4JTD Q-Tronic only.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Istanbul Junkie View Post
That just makes it worse that they are not going in the 159 as the one in our saab is an absolute gem
I think theyll find their way into the 159 eventually
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