TwinSpark 1.8 \ 2.0 piston question - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 15 Old 21-01-19 Thread Starter
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Moaning TwinSpark 1.8 \ 2.0 piston question

Hello from ice-cold-freezing-russia! I've got 156 sportwagon '05 with 1.8 TS euro 3 engine (AR32205).

Problem: i've got weird situation with engine pistons. I found out that previous owner put pistons (dia 82.5 and height 45 mm) from some russian car that has fiat roots (Lada Priora).

I want to overbore cylinder to 83.0 mm and I'm looking for pistons to fit in.

Will 2.0 TS standart pistons fit in? I can't find any information on stock piston height for AR 32205.
According to FederalMogul catalogue AR 32201 (1.8 euro 2) and AR 32205 (1.8 euro 3) has the same height of 60 mm (partnumber for Nural STD piston is 87-118000-00). Is it true?

Also the same FederalMogul catalogue:
— AR 32301 (2.0 euro 2) piston height 56.00 mm (partnumber 87-110900-00)
— AR 32310 (2.0 euro 3) piston height 51.30 mm (partnumber 87-145300-00)


1) Is piston height plays any role?
2) What pistons should I take to bolton fit my overbored 1.8 TS to 83.00 mm?

Last edited by leoner; 21-01-19 at 06:29.
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Use standard 2.0 pistons for AR32201. The later Euro 3 AR32210 engine had a different piston (deck) height (different from total height) to suit the later type multi layer gasket. The pistons are matched to the head gasket. Also, later Euro 3 engines had thinner oil control rings so the earlier pistons and rings are superior in this respect. You shouldn't have oil control problems anyway as the block won't have Fiat's rubbish factory bore finish.

Make sure the con rods haven't been changed or modified.

Last edited by Fruity; 02-03-19 at 16:19.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 15 Old 04-03-19 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fruity View Post
Use standard 2.0 pistons for AR32201. The later Euro 3 AR32210 engine had a different piston (deck) height (different from total height) to suit the later type multi layer gasket.
AR32201 is 1.8 CF2 engine. You are mistaking it for AR32301 - 2.0 CF2
I've made a research on this topic.
1.8 CF3 engine block is shorterer because it is 1.6 engine block. It has the same markings — М654 15
So pistons from AR32301 won't fit this block because of the piston \ engine block height.
Please, check this table I've made — https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Last edited by leoner; 04-03-19 at 16:30.
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1.6 engine probaly must use a shoter conrod or the piston must have less compression height over the pin
Bravo HGT uses same bore and stroke, just has 5 cylinder, not 4

but the 5cylinder Fiat Coupe 20vT engine uses 145mm long conrods

Last edited by hobizoli; 13-04-19 at 14:29.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leoner View Post
AR32201 is 1.8 CF2 engine. You are mistaking it for AR32301 - 2.0 CF2
I've made a research on this topic.
1.8 CF3 engine block is shorterer because it is 1.6 engine block. It has the same markings — М654 15
So pistons from AR32301 won't fit this block because of the piston \ engine block height.
Please, check this table I've made — https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
hm...theoretically it is possible to get a "stroker" 1.8 litre engine from a 1.6?
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(Post Link) post #6 of 15 Old 22-04-19 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hobizoli View Post
1.6 engine probaly must use a shoter conrod or the piston must have less compression height over the pin
1.6 engine uses the same conrod height = 145 mm

Quote:
hm...theoretically it is possible to get a "stroker" 1.8 litre engine from a 1.6?
nope, you can't due to piston height, refer to my table - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._dU/edit#gid=0
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1.6 engine uses the same conrod height = 145 mm



nope, you can't due to piston height, refer to my table - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets..._dU/edit#gid=0

but, if the block is the same height (265mm) as the standard 1.6 too, and i put the 1.8's crank and 1.8 piston and the same 145mm conrod as is the 1.6litre in it, then it must work....right?
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Quote:
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but, if the block is the same height (265mm) as the standard 1.6 too, and i put the 1.8's crank and 1.8 piston and the same 145mm conrod as is the 1.6litre in it, then it must work....right?
Can we keep this discussion going? Also, I want to fit 2.0 CF2 pistons into 1.8 CF2 block. Are there any issues?
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Can we keep this discussion going? Also, I want to fit 2.0 CF2 pistons into 1.8 CF2 block. Are there any issues?
Yes, major issues. The 2.0 has shorter pistons which isn't a concern but the 5.3mm loss of compression height is which would drop the compression ratio. It would be quite a bit of money for less performance unless you want to go out and buy some bespoke pistons which will be more money than swapping in a 2.0 from a breakers.
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Could the head not be skimmed to compensate?

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Yes, major issues. The 2.0 has shorter pistons which isn't a concern but the 5.3mm loss of compression height is which would drop the compression ratio. It would be quite a bit of money for less performance unless you want to go out and buy some bespoke pistons which will be more money than swapping in a 2.0 from a breakers.
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No. 5mm would mean the valves are situated in the cylinder, the skimming would likely go into the coolant jacket and the timing belt needs to be different.

There doesn't appear to be a cheap solution to this. Similarly making a 1.8 from a 1.6. I think crank and rods could be changed but it's still likely more work than just changing it for a larger engine.
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This is interesting. I remember talking to TS Cup racers who told me that they favour using the 1.8 block and boring it for 2.0 pistons? That is why I was preparing for that route. If it is complicated, maybe I can use the 2.0 I have and remove the balance shaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruity View Post
No. 5mm would mean the valves are situated in the cylinder, the skimming would likely go into the coolant jacket and the timing belt needs to be different.

There doesn't appear to be a cheap solution to this. Similarly making a 1.8 from a 1.6. I think crank and rods could be changed but it's still likely more work than just changing it for a larger engine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino164 View Post
This is interesting. I remember talking to TS Cup racers who told me that they favour using the 1.8 block and boring it for 2.0 pistons? That is why I was preparing for that route. If it is complicated, maybe I can use the 2.0 I have and remove the balance shaft?
What about a thicker head gasket?
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(Post Link) post #14 of 15 Old 27-04-19 Thread Starter
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What about a thicker head gasket?
"Thicker" head gasket can make only about ~1 mm higher.

Anyway, I've got an idea in fitting 2.0 CF2 pistons onto 1.6 CF2 conrod, crank and block and put on a 1.8 CF2 head.
Attaching table with pistons parameters. The difference is about ~0.9mm in compression height wich can be resolved by installing a thinner head gasket.
What do you think about this kind of monster?
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Can you not get a second hand 1.8 engine?
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