JTS, TS & some questions - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 15 Old 28-11-18 Thread Starter
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JTS, TS & some questions

Hello everyone!

I alredy read these two threads I get a lot of informations about things I would like to do,
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engi...twinspark.html (difference between jts and twinspark)
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...2-0jts-gt.html (Engine Swap: 1.8TS into a 2.0JTS GT)
but some things are not clear enough for me.

First, I have a chance of buying GT 2.0 JTS with broken engine for 1/3 price of the good one (that would be a "base" car. Then I would like to buy 147 with 2.0 TS Selespeed with engine in well-condition, but broken gearbox (it's Selespeed, that's possible), and then buy ECU from 2.0TS without Selespeed. What's more would I need to make swap possible?

After reading these two threads and after analysing a lot of photos of these two engines I understand these things:
* gearbox would fit;
* engine would fit;
* in fuel system only difference is fuel filter in JTS;
but what about internal wiring loom? How different is it? Only engine wiring loom is different, or wiring loom inside the dashboard is different too - for example you don't need to change wiring loom from the dashboard in Vauxhall Vectra C to make swap from 3.0 V6 CDTI (or any other engine) to 1.8 gasoline possible (only engine wiring loom was needed to change, which connects easily to wiring loom in the car), but is threre a change to make it possible in similar way in Alfa GT too?

I would be pleased if you like to help me. And sorry for my English, it's not brilliant at all.
Greetings, Pat.
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What do you want to end up with? Working GT or 147?

GT is based on the 147 so wiring ought to be similar (Canbus, etc) ...
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Working GT.


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Is the JTS cylinder head OK on the GT ??

You many need another opinion on this, but put the bottom end of the 147 engine in the GT .. just make sure you use the correct head gasket as I think they changed.

Anyone care to comment/confirm?
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Seller says theres broken crankshaft bearing in JTS.

And thats wouldnt be easier to insert all TS engine into JTS gearbox with all wiring loom from TS too?


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So you probably only need the bottom end ..

Swapping the loom, ecu, etc is a big job ... I wouldn't bother .. it's nothing to do with the crank, etc.

The TS and JTS only difference is the head .. TS has twin spark plugs per cylinder, JTS uses one for injection.


The other way is to get the damaged crankshaft re-ground and fit over-sized shells ..


But I also wouldn't buy GT with JTS unless I was 100% certain of problem.

JTS may have suffered a cambelt failure. If the big end shells were not replaced at the same time then they are likely to start knocking later .. they get squashed/flattened. But that isn't a major problem as I've had that happen. Re-grind on crank and new shells was good for another 140000 miles and probably longer!

cheers, Gary

HIS: ex-1998 156 2.0 TSpark with Sport Pack 2, sunroof and hi-level spoiler in Alfa Rosso. V6 intake mod, clear side repeaters and Zeatek undertray. 10th Sep 1998 to 12th Jan 2017

HERS: 2009 MiTo 1.4 95bhp Turismo arrived 21st November in Techno Grey with colour-coded headlight surrounds.

My Alfa156 Web Site - how-to's, piccies, links, useful stuff, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza82 View Post
Swapping the loom, ecu, etc is a big job ... I wouldn't bother .. it's nothing to do with the crank, etc.

The TS and JTS only difference is the head .. TS has twin spark plugs per cylinder, JTS uses one for injection.
Okay, I understand. But what about a situation that I would like to input TS in GT. I have time, patience and a car which will give me parts for this operation - which loom is needed? Only this one from the engine, or this from the dashboard/interior will be needed too?


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No idea ... the ECU will need to be changed but it is likely both looms are similar as GT is just a 147 underneath. I'd keep the GT one as it may have GT specific wiring for the body/interior. 147 will have additional wiring for Selespeed unit which won't be needed.

Just swap the engine and the ECU ... but also try the "Search" option on this forum as retrofitting a TS engine in place of a JTS must have been done/tried before. Look in the 147, 156, GT section too as that sections in much more widely read that this one.

This is one (1.8 for JTS) but it's a 156 to GT so the looms are very different (156 is NOT canbus): might give you some clues though.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...2-0jts-gt.html (Engine Swap: 1.8TS into a 2.0JTS GT)

Last edited by gazza82; 07-12-18 at 09:15.
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I already checked this thread, but THANK YOU for help me Gazza.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazza82 View Post
The TS and JTS only difference is the head ..
Pistons are different.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
Pistons are different.
Is that why the JTS head gasket is a different thickness?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David C View Post
Pistons are different.
Also the bore of the oil feed to the variator is larger, so not needing the regular changing of the variator that the TwinSpark demands to prevent the occurence of the dreaded diesel sound on startup.
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JTS, TS & some questions

And how about body computer? After ECU change there would be compatibility issues with it? Or get BCM from donor 147 and fit it into GT?


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Last edited by Jaime28; 16-12-18 at 19:44.
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I think there would be problems trying to install a 147 BCM in a GT. They would need largely exactly the same equipment for it to work. I don't know about this though.

As for using the the 147 Selespeed in a GT, I have no idea if the looms and ECU are compatible but AFAIK, the Selespeed loom and ECU are part of the engine ECU so anything from a Selespeed is really a non-starter. A non-Selespeed version may have a chance to work as at least it would have a load of fault codes from not seeing the Selespeed parts.

I think a 147 or GT has more chance of working than a 156 due to Can-Bus and not needing to change the immobiliser as well but I don't know. Frankly I think the place to start would be comparing a TS against a JTS wiring loom and module with how it connects to the car's main loom. For that you will need plenty of information such as pin data from a source such as E-Learn and hope the connectors are the same as reconfiguring multi plugs sounds like a task for a masochist.

No one has attempted this so no one can say for sure. Quite a lot of research is needed and a study of wiring is probably the best place to start. Physically, the differences between TS and JTS are quite minimal and from my experience should present no great difficulty in changing other than a small exhaust modification.

For me it all hinges on how the wiring connects up.
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JTS, TS & some questions

Thats why I was thinking about Selespeed version of 147 too - they were very well equipped. But now I have a bit different idea.

After reading a lot of different forums and other stuff I have „beta” version of work plan:

Whats I need to get:
* Alfa GT JTS
* Alfa 147 2.0 TS
* Immo-off ECU 2.0 TS

First thing is replacing JTS engine by the TS engine with all looms and with immo-off ECU. I dont think that BCM includes any information about equipped engine and after installing „clean” ECU it will get immobiliser data from BCM, isnt it? If it will work there wont be any need of changing keys or worry about equipment not included in 147 BCM. Or try ECU from 1.8 GT if it wont work.

And thats it TBF. If I will convince my Dad to choose Alfa over Vauxhall we will start that work. And then, I promise you Guys, I will write about progress in this project when it will start.


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Last edited by Jaime28; 19-12-18 at 00:07.
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