Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!! - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 19 Old 07-02-08 Thread Starter
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Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Picked my 156 2 litre up tonight after a full belt change and variator replacement..felt slightly rough at tickover but pulled well on part throttle, thought timing may be a bit out

Drove six miles to pick the kids up, even asked them if they noticed anything different. They agreed ,vibration through feet

Turned sraight around, drove home (about 1 mile) as i pulled into my road injector light on and running on, at best, three cylinders


What have they done!!

Won't drive car until the angry phone call in the morning.

Garage is indy with 20 years plus Alfa Knowledge.
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

sounds like the timing may be 1 or 2 teeth out although at approx 3000rpm the vehicle would sound very rough /clattery, could be a cam sensor,lead becomes brittle after age / heat (would not really be the garages fault).There is also a possibility of a faulty balance shaft belt if its a 2.0 t/s 16v. These are very difficult to spot some only become apparent when vehicle is hot (won't normally bring on warning light though) May even be plugs/coils/leads all which need to be moved to do the job. again this is an age problem not a garage problem.Never blame the garage straight away. Ask them if they could check the car again. In my dealings with garages the "ever since you worked on my car" starting line gets the back of the garage up. Sometimes it is a coincidence and the correct approach will help.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 19 Old 08-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Good advice Harry,
An hour to go before the phone call.

Hope it's easy fix.
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Ask them if they used the cam locking tools when they did the cambelt change, but I think Harry may be right with regards to the coils. They probably have been disturbed and not put back correctly.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 19 Old 08-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

UPDATE:
OK garage owner came round,started up, still running on three, removed coil packs and check for sparks at each lead end.All fine, then checked injection connections...No.4 was loose! pushed back in, now back on all four.....garage owner left..all fine......or so I thought...

Took her for 20 mile drive. Still felt rough compared to pre belt change smoothness,especially on overun, also not as keen to rev. Stopped at traffic lights could hear a rattle..pulled over, opened bonnet ...... sounds like a loose pulley.!

Also checked the oil level, which was fine, but the dipstck (the coiled part) was to hot to touch is this normal?

So I won't be using it over the weekend and It'll be back at the garage first thing Monday
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

keep us informed please
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

I think they may have disturbed the cam position sensor behind the exhaust cam pulley. It will still run without it but it will run rough.
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(Post Link) post #8 of 19 Old 09-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Started the car again on the drive today.No "sprocket rattle" at first when cold but still feeling rough especially when the revs are descending.

When the engine got up to temperature the "sprocket rattle" started again.

What do you reckon?

I got all the parts from Alternative Autos 3 belts and 5 pulleys OE Alfa or Dayco.
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

I think it could be a faulty balance shaft belt.Rough on over run. Also when the vehicle gets to working temperature the balance shaft belt can rise in the teeth, the tensioner then gets forced to full adjustment causing a knocking noise(heavy noise). If you think this is the case your mechanic needs to run the vehicle up to temp with the side covers of to see is he can see the belt trying to jump.If need be remove the balance shaft belt and run the car up to temp. Faulty balance shaft belts have been in circulation for approx 2 years. Dayco are the only supplier of this belt so no matter what company has stamped / boxed the belt it will have come from the Dayco factory. A good Alfa parts supplier checks the belts before sending. A large Alfa parts supplier would be able to warn of this problem before selling the items. I have with my cars spoken to Jamie @ the workshop, and the guys at Alfashop and Alfaaid all warned me of the problem when ringing round. Keep us in the loop!
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(Post Link) post #10 of 19 Old 10-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Thanks Harry,
If it is the belt, where can I get a correct one?

How is it checked?

Do you know of Alternative Autos? Can they check and replace?

Thanks again.
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

try any of the guys I have mentioned all have been supplying parts for years Alfashop 25 years plus, Alfaaid 10 years plus. Spoke to one of above last week and they were waiting for belts. Testing I am sure is a skilled job, all the above have their own workshops so I guess you may pay a little more maybe but you also get some knowledge and technical support. The guys above have always been very helpful. First however I guess you need to know if it is that belt that is faulty.
ps anyone selling a lot of these items will know about the problem as it has been about for 2 years.
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(Post Link) post #12 of 19 Old 13-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

UPDATE:

I have recieved a new balance belt that has been checked by the parts supplier that initialy supplied the parts (first belt was not checked i.e run through a jig).The garage is yet to fit.

Harry,is it possible that the garage could have fitted the origional belt incorrectly (inside out or wrong direction) that would cause the same symptoms? (tensioner rattle and rough running).
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

It makes no difference if the belt is fitted inside out. The tensioner knocking noise is the belt riding high and pulling the tensioner tight and hitting its stop (can sometimes knock as loud as big ends). Rough running can be the vibration it causes. Which garage did you use ? I have spoken to many over the years. Are you sure the belt is the problem, has it being checked by the garage have they checked ? It can sometimes be awkward for both garage and customer if you have supplied your own parts.
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(Post Link) post #14 of 19 Old 16-02-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Update:


My car seems to be ok now after the parts supplier sent me a new tested belt.
I still had a slight rattle on the first day of repair,but this seems to have bedded in and has been ok for the past two days.

My garage wants to charge me an additional 2 1/2 hours labour for replacing the balance belt.(I supplied the belt kit ,at their request, after confirming with the garage the manufacturers of the components were OE or Dayco)


Have I any grounds for recompense from the parts supplier?



Thanks
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

I would speak to your supplier.Explain to them that you know the problem has been around for a long time.I would have thought a good Alfaromeo parts supplier should have tested this belt for what is a known fault. (maybe try a different parts supplier.) Your garage is in my opinion on funny ground, yes he is right to ask you to pay for the additional work as you supplied your own parts.If he supplied the parts he would have to take it on the chin.However if he asked you to supply the parts that is a different matter.If it is a good garage that you do not want to fall out with explain this and try to find some common ground.
The garage that I use will not fit any parts that are not supplied by them selves.I have been told this is for warranty reasons, if there is a fault my garage will rectify it straight away with no bill. An example would be taking your good lady out for a nice romantic meal and taking out of your bag some steak and potatoes and asking for the chef to prepare and cook them.
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(Post Link) post #16 of 19 Old 19-03-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Update:
Ok ,so its been a month since the 2nd balance belt has been fitted.

Still not completely happy ,as it still dosen't feel as smooth as it was pre belt change.

There is a definate vibration/ressonance between around 2,000 to 2,250 rpm.You can feel it going up the rev range and down.

Still balance belt issues or now timing?
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(Post Link) post #17 of 19 Old 19-03-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Update:
Ok ,so its been a month since the 2nd balance belt has been fitted.

Still not completely happy ,as it still dosen't feel as smooth as it was pre belt change.

There is a definate vibration/ressonance between around 2,000 to 2,250 rpm.You can feel it going up the rev range and down.

Still balance belt issues or now timing?
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

I would say still balance shaft belt issue.If timing was out the vehicle would vibrate at idle and also if only 1 tooth out at 2500-3000 rpm the vehicle would clatter so much you would not drive it.Emissions would also be out.I guess your specialist used the correct tools which would limit problems.If it turns out to be the balance shaft belt the problem would get worse until the belt would loose some teeth.Alfaromeo are having problems with their new vehicles fitted with balance belt issues direct from the factory.Call some specialists that I mentioned before and get some advice from any of them.
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(Post Link) post #19 of 19 Old 27-03-08 Thread Starter
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Re: Warning light/big misfire after belt change!!!

Thanks again Harry.

Will do.
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