Jaag i-Pace - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Cool Wall This lounge has been dedicated to Mark Cullen who tragically passed away on 07-04-08. The Cool Wall was Marks idea so it's only right it has his name attached.


View Poll Results: new leccy cat
Sub-zero 0 0%
Cool 9 56.25%
Uncool 2 12.50%
Seriously uncool 0 0%
Meh 5 31.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

 21Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by cue2 View Post
The Etype was heavily influenced by the Disco Volante though?
You could probably list any number of aerodynamic cars from the previous 30 years as influences, but the main one was the D Type of course

No reason why somebody couldn't make a nice C52 Spider EV replica though, I certainly wouldn't mind that either.

Wonder why all these EVs are made to look like Renault / Nike trainer clones though? Bearing in mind there's no conventional drivetrain to style the car around, they could be pretty much any shape people want, from classic replicas through the aerodynamically-ideal 'half-teardrop' shape to really wacky things like a banana or suchlike!
mj2k is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
County: -
Posts: 105
Petrol (and diesel) remain one of the most efficient ways of storing energy. Batteries mean bulky, heavy cars in order to offer any decent range. If we could develop similar energy storage efficiency to petrol for an EV, and be able to generate electricity for them without either covering the country in windfarms and solar panels, or cutting down forests in North America to use as biomass - and be able to charge them quickly - then I'd be a supporter. Then we could once again concentrate on things like aerodynamic efficiency, which is killed by the large frontal area of these vehicles.
rjwooll is offline  
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwooll View Post
Petrol (and diesel) remain one of the most efficient ways of storing energy. Batteries mean bulky, heavy cars in order to offer any decent range. If we could develop similar energy storage efficiency to petrol for an EV, and be able to generate electricity for them without either covering the country in windfarms and solar panels, or cutting down forests in North America to use as biomass - and be able to charge them quickly - then I'd be a supporter. Then we could once again concentrate on things like aerodynamic efficiency, which is killed by the large frontal area of these vehicles.
I'm with you on that one, here are some stats I compiled on a Subaru forum, if anyone's interested in the sources / averaging done to arrive at these figures I'll post them on here, if not I'll save you all from 30 mins of mind-numbing reading:

Petrol engine 23-25% efficient

EV (allowing for electricity generation / distribution / storage) 36% efficient

Old school diesel 42% efficient

If all the efficiency-sapping emission control malarkey is ignored, diesels are still the most efficient power source for cars. And the older ones will run off biodiesel (and some will run off straight vegetable oil) which is pretty eco-friendly...

About the only thing I didn't take into account above is the cost of processing / transporting the fuel to the end user. You could argue there is no transport cost for EVs, but of course assuming the electricity isn't created on wind farms the fuel used to generate the electricity (be it coal, oil, biomass, etc) still has to be processed and transported to the power station (and in the case of nuclear, to spent fuel storage), so that will make some difference to all the efficiency figures, but it's difficult to calculate how much.
rjwooll likes this.

Last edited by mj2k; 25-10-18 at 23:11.
mj2k is offline  
Status: Gormless [email protected]*
AO Gold Member
 
Paddy OPlastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ireland
County: Cork
Posts: 8,147

Member car:

Alfa GT JTD 2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by mj2k View Post
I'm with you on that one, here are some stats I compiled on a Subaru forum, if anyone's interested in the sources / averaging done to arrive at these figures I'll post them on here, if not I'll save you all from 30 mins of mind-numbing reading:

Petrol engine 23-25% efficient

EV (allowing for electricity generation / distribution / storage) 36% efficient

Old school diesel 42% efficient

If all the efficiency-sapping emission control malarkey is ignored, diesels are still the most efficient power source for cars. And the older ones will run off biodiesel (and some will run off straight vegetable oil) which is pretty eco-friendly...

About the only thing I didn't take into account above is the cost of processing / transporting the fuel to the end user. You could argue there is no transport cost for EVs, but of course assuming the electricity isn't created on wind farms the fuel used to generate the electricity (be it coal, oil, biomass, etc) still has to be processed and transported to the power station (and in the case of nuclear, to spent fuel storage), so that will make some difference to all the efficiency figures, but it's difficult to calculate how much.
The whole point about EVs is that they are supposed to be introduced alongside carbon neutral and renewable electricity production. In that context they make much more sense ecologically and in efficiency.
Paddy OPlastic is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
danieldvblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 466
Also itís about localised air pollution particularly in densely populated
towns and cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
danieldvblue is offline  
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Yeah you're both right there, though it is going to be some time before we can get even 50% of our energy from renewable sources, and what are the bets everyone gets fed up with windmills popping up everywhere long before that?

And yeah the big advantage of EVs is that the pollution's moved out of city centres, though at the expense of greatly increased pollution where the EV batteries are made, and (maybe temporarily) where the electricity is generated. I guess the ideal for the moment would be a chargeable hybrid, with a small, v efficient generator running on veggie oil to keep the car going when not in heavily populated urban areas.
mj2k is offline  
Status: Petrol head
AO Platinum Member
 
cue2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 30,163
The EV batteries need renewing when they go below a certain level of efficiency too. Luckily , Tesla is making them into roof tiles. Google it..
mj2k likes this.
cue2 is online now  
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by cue2 View Post
The EV batteries need renewing when they go below a certain level of efficiency too. Luckily , Tesla is making them into roof tiles. Google it..
Great idea, thought the roof tiles were something different though?

Just as well if they are, not sure I'd want several kg of an explosive, toxic nickel, cobalt and lithium soup above my head as a roof tbh
mj2k is offline  
(Post Link) post #34 of 42 Old 31-10-18 Thread Starter
Status: twisted alestarter
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Club Member Number: 59
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,537
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj2k View Post
not sure I'd want several kg of an explosive, toxic nickel, cobalt and lithium soup above my head as a roof tbh

don't knock it until you've tried it, is what I always say
mj2k likes this.
Elvis Presley is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
County: -
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldvblue View Post
Also itís about localised air pollution particularly in densely populated
towns and cities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The irony is that the intensively used vehicles (trucks, vans) are unlikely to be electric anytime soon. Also, we have reached a point in the development of conventionally fuelled vehicles where emissions levels are extremely low and well controlled - most measurable vehicle pollution in cities comes from the older segment of the vehicle parc, not the new ones. So measure again in 10 years time and - without EVs - pollution levels will be extremely low.
rjwooll is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
danieldvblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwooll View Post
The irony is that the intensively used vehicles (trucks, vans) are unlikely to be electric anytime soon. Also, we have reached a point in the development of conventionally fuelled vehicles where emissions levels are extremely low and well controlled - most measurable vehicle pollution in cities comes from the older segment of the vehicle parc, not the new ones. So measure again in 10 years time and - without EVs - pollution levels will be extremely low.

But presumably even lower with EVs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
danieldvblue is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
County: -
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj2k View Post
Yeah you're both right there, though it is going to be some time before we can get even 50% of our energy from renewable sources, and what are the bets everyone gets fed up with windmills popping up everywhere long before that?

And yeah the big advantage of EVs is that the pollution's moved out of city centres, though at the expense of greatly increased pollution where the EV batteries are made, and (maybe temporarily) where the electricity is generated. I guess the ideal for the moment would be a chargeable hybrid, with a small, v efficient generator running on veggie oil to keep the car going when not in heavily populated urban areas.
One of the major sources of baseload (i.e. reliable) renewable energy is biomass. From a government supplied emissions calculator I used a couple of years ago, the emissions from simply harvesting, processing and shipping this stuff from our major supplier in North Carolina is already at least 50% of that of burning 'clean coal' to produce the same amount of energy. The govt doesn't even count the smokestack emissions of biomass (which, per unit of energy produced, are very similar to those of clean coal) as these (yes, Sir Humphrey) are deemed to have occurred at the point of harvesting, therefore we don't need to count them.

Last edited by rjwooll; 31-10-18 at 13:26.
rjwooll is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
County: -
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieldvblue View Post
But presumably even lower with EVs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Of course! But it's the cost of achieveng this level of perfection that is my concern. The last 20% of progress tends to represent 80% of the bill. Is it worth it?
rjwooll is offline  
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwooll View Post
One of the major sources of baseload (i.e. reliable) renewable energy is biomass. From a government supplied emissions calculator I used a couple of years ago, the emissions from simply harvesting, processing and shipping this stuff from our major supplier in North Carolina is already at least 50% of that of burning 'clean coal' to produce the same amount of energy. The govt doesn't even count the smokestack emissions of biomass (which, per unit of energy produced, are very similar to those of clean coal) as these (yes, Sir Humphrey) are deemed to have occurred at the point of harvesting, therefore we don't need to count them.
Heh, interestingly they do count the emissions of biodiesel / straight veg oil in a diesel, even though exactly the same 'point of harvest' emissions would apply

Edit: Though in fairness assuming the biomass is a by-product of some other farming process and isn't just grown to be burned it is a different case since the energy spent harvesting the crop would be spent whether the biomass was used or not. Cost of transport should definitely be counted though, if you want to provide a fair playing field (which of course nobody wants).

Last edited by mj2k; 31-10-18 at 15:45.
mj2k is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
County: -
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mj2k View Post
Heh, interestingly they do count the emissions of biodiesel / straight veg oil in a diesel, even though exactly the same 'point of harvest' emissions would apply

Edit: Though in fairness assuming the biomass is a by-product of some other farming process and isn't just grown to be burned it is a different case since the energy spent harvesting the crop would be spent whether the biomass was used or not. Cost of transport should definitely be counted though, if you want to provide a fair playing field (which of course nobody wants).
Most UK biomass power generation is done by Drax using converted coal generation plant. The pellets used in the generation process are sourced from the USA - mainly North Carolina (I believe) where mature forests are being felled to feed our habit. I don't feel at all comfortable with this, both from an environmental point of view, and from a financial point of view as Drax is being paid between 50 and 100% above market price for its power via taxpayer subsidies and 'green' consumer bill surcharges.
Elvis Presley and mj2k like this.
rjwooll is offline  
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,361
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjwooll View Post
Most UK biomass power generation is done by Drax using converted coal generation plant. The pellets used in the generation process are sourced from the USA - mainly North Carolina (I believe) where mature forests are being felled to feed our habit. I don't feel at all comfortable with this, both from an environmental point of view, and from a financial point of view as Drax is being paid between 50 and 100% above market price for its power via taxpayer subsidies and 'green' consumer bill surcharges.
Wow, that's the worst 'enviro-con' I've heard of so far!

If that's typical we should all be running Bussos rather than EVs, they'd be far more environmentally friendly.
rjwooll likes this.
mj2k is offline  
Status: Gormless [email protected]*
AO Gold Member
 
Paddy OPlastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ireland
County: Cork
Posts: 8,147

Member car:

Alfa GT JTD 2004

Bored Sunday browsing came across the Sniff Petrol review.

https://sniffpetrol.com/2018/08/31/a...jaguar-i-pace/

Porter likes it.
alfabeat likes this.
Paddy OPlastic is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Misc Lounges > Community Discussions > Cool Wall

Tags
ipace , jaag

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome