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Hmmm engine oil ?

Hi guy's, going to have the oil changed on my Giulietta 1.4 tb multi air, can any one tell me the difference between the selenia k pure and selenia star appart from the price lol, both are recommended for the car but which should i use.
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Selenia K Pure energy meets the requirements for use in Mercedes and BMW engines, meeting their more strict anti-wear and anti-oxidation requirements. It is, however, NOT on the approved MB229.51 list.

Any oil on that list is qualified for use in the MA engine.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...229.51_en.html
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Only use the Selenia Digitec 0W30 for a Multiair
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Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
Selenia K Pure energy meets the requirements for use in Mercedes and BMW engines, meeting their more strict anti-wear and anti-oxidation requirements. It is, however, NOT on the approved MB229.51 list.

Any oil on that list is qualified for use in the MA engine.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...229.51_en.html
Depends on which year MA you have. I have a 2012 build. Up till 2013 the correct oil is 5W40 C3 full synthetic. That is a definite fact. Selenia K and Star PE are the same thing in different bottle and these are 5w40 C3. My AR first dealer service put the K in my MA. The bottle on K has multiair written on it. Later models needed 0w30 (something to do with fuel efficiency issues) but I think they changed back to the original oil spec soon after.
However, MA definitely requires the correct oil to be added because incorrect oil is blamed for MA failures. There are quite a few oils apart from Selenia K or STar that will be good. Motul XClean 8100 is a fine oil for example or you could use Liqui Moly that fits the specs without any issues. These are probably better quality than Selenia. Selenia is a Fiat company and they are just trying to sell their own oil. They don't even actually give any approvals for any other oil brands for their cars at all.
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cheers guy's and thanks for your feedback
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Selenia is a Fiat company and they are just trying to sell their own oil.
Selenia was a Fiat company many years ago.
It is currently owned by Petronas.
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Depends on which year MA you have. I have a 2012 build. Up till 2013 the correct oil is 5W40 C3 full synthetic. That is a definite fact. Selenia K and Star PE are the same thing in different bottle and these are 5w40 C3. My AR first dealer service put the K in my MA. The bottle on K has multiair written on it. Later models needed 0w30 (something to do with fuel efficiency issues) but I think they changed back to the original oil spec soon after.
However, MA definitely requires the correct oil to be added because incorrect oil is blamed for MA failures. There are quite a few oils apart from Selenia K or STar that will be good. Motul XClean 8100 is a fine oil for example or you could use Liqui Moly that fits the specs without any issues. These are probably better quality than Selenia. Selenia is a Fiat company and they are just trying to sell their own oil. They don't even actually give any approvals for any other oil brands for their cars at all.
All the oils in the MB229.51list are Acea C3, and all have a noack % of 10 or less like demanded by Fiat spec 9.55535-S2.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
Selenia K Pure energy meets the requirements for use in Mercedes and BMW engines, meeting their more strict anti-wear and anti-oxidation requirements. It is, however, NOT on the approved MB229.51 list.

Any oil on that list is qualified for use in the MA engine.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...229.51_en.html
That is so NOT true. It's either 5W-40 for older models or 0W-30 for newer. 0W-40 and 5W-30 were never approved, which is written specifically in the owner's manual. And for MA viscosity must be strictly followed.
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that is utter ********..


40 weight is a range from 12.5 to 16.3 Cst at 100C or the latter is 30% more viscous than the first at the same temperature. in the 30 weights the most viscous are 35% heavier than the thinnest.

0w or 5w only makes a difference at -30C. above -25C they're both the same (SAE) viscosity.

What IS important is the HTHS viscosity of minimum 3.5 cp and the Noack of 10% or less. HTHS viscosity is the viscosity under stress and is directly related to wear and fuel consumption.

FIAT 9.55535-S2 followes the minimum ACEA C3 spec, excluding the demand for a noack of 10% maximum. ACEA allowes 13%. MB229.51 allowes 10% maximum AND requires further testing in engines to determine wear, oxidation and sludging.

ACEA C3 is also a diesel AND Petrol spec, as is Fiat 9.55535-S2 (and 9.55535-S1 which is analogous to ACEA C2 with noack under 10%)

so what changed that newer Multiair engines can use 5w-30 and older can't? I know: the carbon footprint reduced in the NEDC...
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Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
that is utter ********..


40 weight is a range from 12.5 to 16.3 Cst at 100C or the latter is 30% more viscous than the first at the same temperature. in the 30 weights the most viscous are 35% heavier than the thinnest.

0w or 5w only makes a difference at -30C. above -25C they're both the same (SAE) viscosity.

What IS important is the HTHS viscosity of minimum 3.5 cp and the Noack of 10% or less. HTHS viscosity is the viscosity under stress and is directly related to wear and fuel consumption.

FIAT 9.55535-S2 followes the minimum ACEA C3 spec, excluding the demand for a noack of 10% maximum. ACEA allowes 13%. MB229.51 allowes 10% maximum AND requires further testing in engines to determine wear, oxidation and sludging.

ACEA C3 is also a diesel AND Petrol spec, as is Fiat 9.55535-S2 (and 9.55535-S1 which is analogous to ACEA C2 with noack under 10%)

so what changed that newer Multiair engines can use 5w-30 and older can't? I know: the carbon footprint reduced in the NEDC...

While all of these might be true, I wouldn't risk voiding my warranty just because I used different grade oil. And I'm sure the dealer would use it against you.
Fiat 500 Abarth, which uses MA in the States, can use Full SAPS 5W-40 grade oil there. So I guess there should be no problem with using Full SAPS in the MA engine, but I will not test it on my car .
And, to be precise, newer MAs use 0W-30, older 5W-40 - none of them uses 5W-30.
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the only difference between a 0w-30 and 5w-30 is at the extreme low temperature that the 0w and 5w are tested at. -25 has never been recorded here in the last 150 years, and both are the same viscosity at that temperature at that temperature. so there's no practical difference for UK and western-europe users.

Seems to me Alfa/Fiat chose a grade from the selenia portfolio which is most likely to increase their revenue.

the MB2289.51 list are all low saps oils, but yes, I do prefer full saps even in my diesel engine.

2 years, andyou're out of warranty, which is when the first oil change is due
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
the only difference between a 0w-30 and 5w-30 is at the extreme low temperature that the 0w and 5w are tested at. -25 has never been recorded here in the last 150 years, and both are the same viscosity at that temperature at that temperature. so there's no practical difference for UK and western-europe users.

Seems to me Alfa/Fiat chose a grade from the selenia portfolio which is most likely to increase their revenue.

the MB2289.51 list are all low saps oils, but yes, I do prefer full saps even in my diesel engine.

2 years, andyou're out of warranty, which is when the first oil change is due
1. It was -28C here in Poland 2 years ago.
2. Oil change interval is 15 kkm now, which is for me around 8 months. And I'd never change oil less often then every 12 months.
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-28C is still above the limit for 5w

I change mine every 18k myself, but I got the warranty required 36k oil change at the dealer. the first oil change was after 5 months. I put in Castrol edge fst turbo diesel 5w-40...
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Isn't the C3 (low - mid saps) specification to protect the 3 way catalyst?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
-28C is still above the limit for 5w

I change mine every 18k myself, but I got the warranty required 36k oil change at the dealer. the first oil change was after 5 months. I put in Castrol edge fst turbo diesel 5w-40...
So as above is the - Castrol Engine Oil (Edge 5W-40 With Titanium FST Fully Synthetic 4Ltr) for my 2011 1.4MA Petrol OK? Have checked and it complies to - Fiat 9.55535.S2

Thanks
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So as above is the - Castrol Engine Oil (Edge 5W-40 With Titanium FST Fully Synthetic 4Ltr) for my 2011 1.4MA Petrol OK? Have checked and it complies to - Fiat 9.55535.S2

Thanks
Yes this one should be ok, I almost bought this one, though decided to just go safe and take the Selenia.
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So as above is the - Castrol Engine Oil (Edge 5W-40 With Titanium FST Fully Synthetic 4Ltr) for my 2011 1.4MA Petrol OK? Have checked and it complies to - Fiat 9.55535.S2

Thanks
It's ok, and I even used it in my diesel at the first oil change. But I wouldn't choose that oil right now for either diesel or petrol. It's way overpriced!
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It's ok, and I even used it in my diesel at the first oil change. But I wouldn't choose that oil right now for either diesel or petrol. It's way overpriced!
Cheers, So what Oil would you recommended? it was the oil 2 options on the parts site I was looking at, I do get 20% so was about 36 for 4 litres
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You can choose any oil on the MB229.51 approval list and it'll work and was actually tested. Get one with VW 507.00 and BMW LL-04 approval aswell, and it meets all the toughest standards

Here's the MB approval list: https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevol...229.51_en.html

Nevermind if it doesn't actually say Fiat 9.55535-S2. that spec copies the basic Acea C3 spec except for Noack volatility requirements which have to be 10% or less (13% for Acea). MB229.51 requires the same volatility but adds other, more stringent requirements regarding wear and oxidation stability.
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Get one with VW 507.00 ...
VW507.00 is a 5W30
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Cheers, So what Oil would you recommended? it was the oil 2 options on the parts site I was looking at, I do get 20% so was about 36 for 4 litres
Go for it, that is a good price. and a hell of a lot cheaper than having to do an engine rebuild because cheap oil was used.
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VW507.00 is a 5W30
It's also an A3/B4 (high HTHS oil) like the Multiair requires, and will work. You can't get closer to being a 5w40
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Who knows conclusively why Alfa is speccing a low saps oil?

It can’t be for the Multiair unit - it’s four solenoids and some hydraulic pistons. High saps A3 oil would be better.

It can’t be for inlet valve deposits - it’s not direct injection.

Is it just for the catalytic converter?

Or - is it because Europe (unlike the US and us in Australia) has low sulphur fuel and can get away with C3. And given Europe is so infested with diesel cars they just use a common oil and call it “good enough” for the petrols...
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I can say nothing conclusively but this is what I understand:

The hydraulic pistons you mentioned are sensitive to lack of lubrication. There's a filter specific to the multiair unit which can clog. Allegedly it's not on the service schedule but really should be replaced regularly.

I've assumed the thinner oil is to give the uniair units (if that's the right term) a better chance to retain an oil film.
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The change to 0/30 is for emissions, not Multiair. All manufacturers are doing it.

I’ve put in shell helix ultra 5/40 A3/B4 spec oil, and the engine is remarkably quieter and smoother and more responsive than on Selenia C3 5/40. I’m not convinced the selennia is anything special beyond the marketed deal with FCA...

In addition, the 1.4 Multiair has flat bucket rappers for the exhaust valves, and they’re also better off with the older spec. To meet low ash for the diesel C3 spec, they reduce some additives that are designed to protect for such scuffing scenarios - most engines these days have rollers so it’s no big deal - Alfa is unusual in having a bucket tappet.
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