Giulia Veloce stop/start issue - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 26 Old 11-09-19 Thread Starter
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Giulia Veloce stop/start issue

Hi all,

Good news. The stop/start didn't work when I bought the car about a month ago so it's had a new battery under warranty. It also had a new interior light unit so the alarm sensitivity could be dialled down. It also had any relevant software updates completed. All done at Monday Sport in Sussex (not where I bought the car).

It took a day or so for the battery etc to calibrate and the stop/start kicked in and worked. After another day or so and a 40 mile journey, it doesn't work again. I've been told there are many parameters etc that can affect the operation of stop/start and it's not a massive issue. However, on a £25k, 18-month old car, I feel it should work!

Have emailed Monza Sport twice but they haven't responded so will have to call. The car is fab and, yes, I could just enjoy it but it's a matter of principal!

Any ideas what to suggest or look at next?

Thanks in advance

Rockin' all over the road in Alfas since 1998 including: 164 TS, 164 QV 24v, 166 3.0 Super, 159 JTDM, 75 TS Veloce, 156 1.8 TS Veloce, Giulietta Cloverleaf and now the Giulia Veloce.
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There's a substantial thread on this subject going way back, with lots of similar reports and views on the reasons why: I've had the same problem myself (Super 2.0, new in Jan. 2017). The bigger downside of it is that when winter arrives, one frosty morning you'll find the HRW doesn't work due to the battery being low on charge. I firmly believe that the so-called Intelligent (Ha!) Battery System doesn't function as it should. I've complained about it and had it investigated under warranty twice, but still not convinced that it is working properly.
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Mine was in for it to be looked at last week. They trickle charged the battery, still doesn't work. It's
due to go back in after some other screw ups.....
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There are a number of things which cause the start/stop not to work, some as designed, some not so much
See:
stopstart.pdf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peralfaadastra View Post
There's a substantial thread on this subject going way back, with lots of similar reports and views on the reasons why: I've had the same problem myself (Super 2.0, new in Jan. 2017). The bigger downside of it is that when winter arrives, one frosty morning you'll find the HRW doesn't work due to the battery being low on charge. I firmly believe that the so-called Intelligent (Ha!) Battery System doesn't function as it should. I've complained about it and had it investigated under warranty twice, but still not convinced that it is working properly.
The logic used to determine whether the STOP/START and HRW are available is highly flawed. The absence of STOP/START is no issue to me as I always disable it.

Absence of the HRW is a potential safety issue. Fortunately the HRW has only been inoperative on my car once in 2 years and then when it didn't 't matter.

I believe it was epsonix who reported that there was a software update to the IBS or BCM which improves things, but it's unclear whether that update is applicable to UK cars and whether it improves this issue.

So far this is something which Giulia owners are having to live with, particularly those doing lots of short journeys. It is a design issue which a trip to a workshop is not going to solve.

Andy
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Absence of the HRW is a potential safety issue. Fortunately the HRW has only been inoperative on my car once in 2 years and then when it didn't 't matter. Andy
Alfa take on this would be - you have two wing mirror's use those.

The amount of car is see on the motorway with the back loaded up with stuff all the way up to the roof, it was an offence if you could not see through the rear view mirror - I wonder what afla would say and do if your got a ticket and sent it to them. But then you wouldn't get a ticket as there are so many cars doing it.

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Update - s/s worked today before throwing up the s/s unavailable light and check engine light! S/s not working, neither does D or A mode in the DNA system. I've seen this is a bit of a known issue. It'll go back for another check. Presumably it needs plugging in to turn off the engine light. I hope this isn't going to be a headache!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkle Munkle View Post
Update - s/s worked today before throwing up the s/s unavailable light and check engine light! S/s not working, neither does D or A mode in the DNA system. I've seen this is a bit of a known issue. It'll go back for another check. Presumably it needs plugging in to turn off the engine light. I hope this isn't going to be a headache!
Doesn't need plugging in. Just restart 5 or 6 times and it should reset. Obviously, if this is a recurring issue I'd get a competent dealer to take a look.

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Just forget about stop-start and be done with it. It’ll stop working after you get it fixed once the battery loses charge anyway. Stop losing sleep over the issue and enjoy driving your car. I’m so thankful my Giulietta Veloce and 4C have no such technology. It annoyed the hell out of me in my old Multiair and I was so happy when the stop-start stopped working in it. Not what you wanted but what you’ll probably need to accept sooner or later.
Get the dealer to recheck the new battery. They’ve been known to drop a cell. Just a guess but it could explain the check engine light. Check the terminals are securely connected too and the earth lead as well. Fun, isn’t it? I had this happening with my old Multiair but nothing with the 4C (touch wood) after 3.5 years.
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Last edited by 147Alfaguy; 13-09-19 at 05:29.
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Originally Posted by Paul1355 View Post
Alfa take on this would be - you have two wing mirror's use those.

The amount of car is see on the motorway with the back loaded up with stuff all the way up to the roof, it was an offence if you could not see through the rear view mirror - I wonder what afla would say and do if your got a ticket and sent it to them. But then you wouldn't get a ticket as there are so many cars doing it.

Paul
There's no requirement for an interior rear view mirror. If there was all vans and lorries would be illegal.
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There's no requirement for an interior rear view mirror. If there was all vans and lorries would be illegal.
Perhaps the Construction and Use Regs for cars and vans differ?

Andy
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Doesn't need plugging in. Just restart 5 or 6 times and it should reset. Obviously, if this is a recurring issue I'd get a competent dealer to take a look.

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Tried that and the warning lights / lack of being able to select 'D' or 'A' is still occurring. It's booked in with Monza Sport on Tuesday to see what the fault code is. I would prefer to be safe than sorry - especially as it's all under warranty. If it stops working after this, I'm not bothered but I don't like warning lights or not being able to use 'D'!
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Sorry to sound a bit thick, I've had my Guilia for a week now and don't know if it has Stop/Start? How do I tell if I've inadvertently turned it off?
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Sorry to sound a bit thick, I've had my Guilia for a week now and don't know if it has Stop/Start? How do I tell if I've inadvertently turned it off?
You have olit, it's on every Giulia. You can't inadvertently turn it off. It's either on (and cuts the engine when stationary presuming a load of criteria is met first - see manual) or it's just not working. I've never had any issues with mine though, the handful of times I forget to turn it off that is - which you do by pressing the bottom 'A' button to the right of the steering wheel, underneath the parking sensors 'P' button. You have to disable every time you start the car, there's no way to turn off by default.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bowden View Post
I believe it was epsonix who reported that there was a software update to the IBS or BCM which improves things, but it's unclear whether that update is applicable to UK cars and whether it improves this issue.
it was me, but the thing is that after some updates I got full charging up to ~95% and then so called "intelligent charging" back came in and again did exactly the same as before. I put dementi on too early hurray optimistic statement about BCM update improving things already many times, but as far as I can see people still keep to remember the "breaking news" which turned really not the case
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt1 View Post
You have olit, it's on every Giulia. You can't inadvertently turn it off. It's either on (and cuts the engine when stationary presuming a load of criteria is met first - see manual) or it's just not working. I've never had any issues with mine though, the handful of times I forget to turn it off that is - which you do by pressing the bottom 'A' button to the right of the steering wheel, underneath the parking sensors 'P' button. You have to disable every time you start the car, there's no way to turn off by default.

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or use my S&S deactivator (sorry, not yet english version of website/video) : STUFF4CAR BLOG

winter is comming, but earlier there will be webshop up to buy this stuff to help a bit to your car's battery, aside of most important thing not annoying you to shut your engine down exactly the moment you need it on the cross-road.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epsonix View Post
it was me, but the thing is that after some updates I got full charging up to ~95% and then so called "intelligent charging" back came in and again did exactly the same as before. I put dementi on too early hurray optimistic statement about BCM update improving things already many times, but as far as I can see people still keep to remember the "breaking news" which turned really not the case
Might be caused by IBS needing some time to calibrate.....
from service manual :

Information the IBS transmits out on the Controller Area Network (CAN) data bus is:

•SOC = Battery state of charge (SOC) is expressed as a percentage. The IBS calculates the SOC based on measured voltage, and charge and discharge rates. Therefore, SOC is not a direct percentage of battery voltage.
•SOF = Battery State of Function: Battery state of function (SOF) is a calculated prediction of the lowest voltage the battery will drop to during engine cranking.

The PCM and BCM use this calculated information to optimize vehicle power management for increased fuel efficiency. The data transmitted from IBS is interpreted and sent over the CAN data bus by the module connected to the IBS LIN bus.

When the IBS is powered up for the first time or is powered after a power disconnection, it enters a “recalibration” phase, where the IBS must recognize the type of battery and its characteristics and state. In this phase the tolerances on the state functions (SOC, SOF) are greater than in normal working condition. When IBS is disconnected from the battery, the device loses its stored memory. When power is restored, the IBS starts a relearn process. Until the relearn process is complete, accurate battery state information is unavailable to other vehicle systems. The IBS relearn process requires one start and at least 4 hours of quiescent time (vehicle off, electrical system asleep). Remember, the relearn process is restarted every time power is reconnected to the IBS. This has a major effect on the stop/start feature.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattMatt1 View Post
You have olit, it's on every Giulia. You can't inadvertently turn it off. It's either on (and cuts the engine when stationary presuming a load of criteria is met first - see manual) or it's just not working. I've never had any issues with mine though, the handful of times I forget to turn it off that is - which you do by pressing the bottom 'A' button to the right of the steering wheel, underneath the parking sensors 'P' button. You have to disable every time you start the car, there's no way to turn off by default.

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Thanks for that, but when you press the 'A' button nothing happens on the dashboard to tell you it's been turned off, is that right? Maybe I ought to read the manual
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Thanks for that, but when you press the 'A' button nothing happens on the dashboard to tell you it's been turned off, is that right? Maybe I ought to read the manual
The LED on the button lights up......
It's always a good idea to read the manual
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What jwq said ^^^

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Good news! The start stop worked today for the first time today, it obviously needed the battery getting a good charge! It's like my weekend car at the moment so maybe not using it enough, thanks for your advice.
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Good news! The start stop worked today for the first time today, it obviously needed the battery getting a good charge! It's like my weekend car at the moment so maybe not using it enough, thanks for your advice.
Odds on it won't be working when you next use the car.

My practice is to switch Stop/Start off every time I start the car, believing it doesn't do the engine any good.

Also the logic of STOP/START in the Giulia is highly flawed, ie
  • you come to a stop
  • engine stops.
  • you apply the parking brake
  • you release the footbrake
  • engine starts


I will soon be investing in epsonix's device to set STOP/START's default to off.

Andy
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Must have to admit the stop start on my Guilietta needed a new battery to make it reliable.
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Update - no more warning lights and s/s is working again!

I'm still taking it to Monza Sport so they can check what the fault code was. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'll probably then let it be and leave it to do what it does (or doesn't do)!
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For what it's worth, the following is not exactly a recommendation for use of start/stop

https://publications.anl.gov/anlpubs/2015/05/115925.pdf
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