Giulia Sales in Europe and US...another 159 saga? - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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So at the risk of a torching, would Alfa be better off in the ownership of VW? Other than some dodgy looking VW switchgear, it doesn't seem to have harmed Bentley, Bugatti or Lambo.
Yes!
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I just think that what has happened to Lancia is heartbreaking. I got interested in cars when the Integrale and the Thema 8.32 were around and was a kid when the HPE was on our roads - quirky, unusual but brilliant cars. What has happened to Lancia under FCA is heart-breaking and I can see Alfa going the same way.
Totally agree. Don't get me started.....Lancia have one, if not THE best, of back-catalogues of incredible cars, fantastic rallying history / pedigree & were car engineering pioneers in the early days under old Vincenzo. And now reduced to flogging nothing more than a decade-old girly city car for the female market, and only in Italy. If Fiat did for Lancia in the 80's what VW Group did for Skoda it could've had a winner on its hands. But instead it's robbed us of a famous marque. As a car enthusiast that makes me very sad.

Aaaanyway, at least it makes the Stratos, Fulvia, Flaminia, Beta Coupe, Gamma, integrale etc etc (the list just goes on...) all the more desirable.
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This is all documented in this Lancia Motor Club book which I have. Very sadly started when Fiat took over Lancia in the U.K.,but then sales of Lancias was down 564 cars in 1993.
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Originally Posted by Hamfisti View Post
So at the risk of a torching, would Alfa be better off in the ownership of VW? Other than some dodgy looking VW switchgear, it doesn't seem to have harmed Bentley, Bugatti or Lambo.
Yes!
They should have explored a deeper partnership with Mazda. The Skyactive engines are fantastic and they just announced they’re working on both an in-line 6 family of engines and a RWD platform. But that bridge may have been burned with FCA ‘s quite awful handling of the MX5/Spider/124 relationship.
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Hamfisti nails it. Alfisti will overlook the outdated tech, occasional bit of hard plastic and tolerate the often woeful after care. Conquest sale customers from Audi, BMW, Mercedes and JLR simply won’t. They’ll walk into the showroom, be faced with a bunch of heavily discounted 500s and Renegades, wonder why there are so few Alfas, be annoyed they can’t test drive the model they’re interested in, be shocked at the high monthly payments and simply go back to their usual brand.

My dealer experience is dire. I’m on my 4th Alfa (and second dealer) but every time there has been a moment where the aftersales has left a bitter taste.

Went in a few weeks ago to pick up a replacement service book (they has written in someone else’s service details by mistake - doh) and there were zero Alfa’s in the showroom, the bit with all the Alfa signage just had Fiat 500s in. Never going to sell any that way.


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Weird. I’ve been using Ancaster for servicing for years and my only complaint applies to all car dealer sites . Too many cars when you get there and need to park. Looked a bit desperate with deals handwritten on screens of cars in showroom but I’ve seen that in BMW showrooms.
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Brands can be turned around just look at Skoda/ Hyundai /Kia. Not convinced FCA have the ability to do this with Alfa Romeo.
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Brands can be turned around just look at Skoda/ Hyundai /Kia. Not convinced FCA have the ability to do this with Alfa Romeo.
The credibility of the Germans is remarkable. They have a plan and they get there eventually. They can’t necessarily be trusted but they are admired. I read this on LinkedIn today. Posted by a VW guy;
“German companies were the most frequently affected by misconduct at 43 percent, followed by the British (40 percent), French (38 percent) and finally companies headquartered in Switzerland (35 percent). Of these companies, 17 per cent estimated the financial damage resulting from misconduct to have been more than EUR100,000.”
Why does everybody trust the German companies? He even changed the headline to make out all countries suffered the same level of misconduct!
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And another thing.
BMW reported its first loss in a decade in the main automotive division in the three month through March, after booking a 1.4 billion euro provision ($1.6 billion) for potential European Union fines over collusion. Even excluding this charge, the unit's return on sales dropped to the lowest point in 10 years.
And they are showing the Giulia how to do it? They seem prepared and able to make a loss until lesser companies just go away.
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Have to agree with all points made. I've had my Giulia 2 years now and it's good but there's been no updates from Alfa when the Germans have all made minor updates. It's simply not good enough in todays market. Add to that the woeful dealers and Alfa are stuck with themselves to blame.
The car has been good (not great) but it will be my first and last Alfa then back to the Germans.
Accept fully the comments about dealers, marketing, dodgy satnav etc. But... car not better than BMW equivalents? No- not having that. Not at all. Two close friends with quite expensive BMW 4 series; both prefer the Alfa but won't buy one because of "image" and "poor reliability." Image? Really? Reliability? Mine's been flawless.
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Image?
They don’t have to explain why they’ve got BMWs but we need to justify an Alfa to people. At best they have a strange admiration for the courageous move from default German choices. And they can get a higher list priced car for their monthly figure.
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I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years time Alfa will release a statement saying that Giorgio platform is to expensive to produce with sales they are having, and they will return to more mainstream platforms. Instead of being much more proactive in updating current cars and making new.

When you look at German brands - when they aren't launching face-lifts, they are launching new models, and when they aren't launching new models they are releasing new versions, so there is always something gioing on with them giving them publicity, reviews, youtube vlogs, resons to advertise, etc...

And then there is yet another (already mentioned) fact - they are not really working hard to constantly make new models. By now we should have estate Giulia, new Giulietta, Giulietta SUV, and in devepoment should be some decent coupe and E-segment SUV. But from that list they are making only "Fiat 500X ancient platform-based front wheel drive" SUV. Good job Alfa! People pulling strings at the company are a joke to themselves.


Recently I read that after 2021 (or was it 2022?) Ferrari will no longer supply and build engines for Maserati, because Maserati did not extend their contract (like there is any other manufacturer that could supply Maseati with decent V6 and V8 engines). Go figure... What are they planning for the Maserati brand I probably don't even want to now, because it will most likely be utterly pointless and most of all unsuccessful.
Sergio's famous plan declared Maserati would be going electric only. FCA's Tesla.
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That would explain Ferrari not needing to supply engines to Maserati.
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Yes!
No, if they ever sell to VW, I'll have to buy something else.

VW Group are the biggest con artists of them all and we're not even talking dieselgate, they're unreliable, too expensive, poorly built and incredibly boring to drive.

They've bought off the press and people have fallen for it.
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No, if they ever sell to VW, I'll have to buy something else.

VW Group are the biggest con artists of them all and we're not even talking dieselgate, they're unreliable, too expensive, poorly built and incredibly boring to drive.

They've bought off the press and people have fallen for it.
Completely agree. When I wrote “yes”, it was more a “yes” to being part of a group that could provide support to enable Alfa to develop a range of cars that people on here have been discussing.

I left the fold when my 159 SW fell to pieces, because there was no replacement from Alfa. Right now, I can’t come back for the foreseeable future.
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The trouble with the Giulia is they sprent all that money and effort making a brilliant product for a sector which was/is shrinking and is dominated by manufacturers who didn't stop production of their predecessors nearly 5 years before. They've had to pretty much start from scratch, in a shrinking market full of people who don't want to take risks, not least with an Italian brand with a (somewhat underserved) reputation for fragility and (mostly deserved) questionnable aftercare. Stelvio is similar - no predecessor, but they're late to the party and the 'safer bets' (in the publics eyes) already have established models to go to instead.

The sales appeared to re-ignite when they launched the Giulia Veloce as it was a new engine and trim level which early adopters could trade up to, and it attracted new buyers from rivals too, but since the Veloce there's been nothing other than special editions and tiny tweaks that most people wouldn't notice. Giulia's been around 3 years this year - it needs stepping up a notch inside (to shut the press-up), new infotainment and minor tweaks outside to distinguish it from the older models, but until the hybrid/electric powertrains are available that's all that's really wrong with the product. Besides the above paragraph the issues lie with the terrible marketing - it'd barely be sufficient if Alfa were established in the Giulia sector, but with a 5 year gap in products and their reputation it needed so much more. The product was brilliant and got extremely positive reviews from press and customers alike, so what was there to be afraid of? What little marketing they've done has been unimaginitive and low-budget in its appearance. FCA seem to be able to market Jeep fairly sucessfully but when it comes to their original Italian brands it's a hopeless effort. I loathe VW Group but the Skoda adverts that start off with Paloma Faith singing and the viewer with no idea what the ad is for, then the cars appear, shows what can be done if you put a bit of effort into it. Even Fiat's old Punto adverts with the Brummie saying 'Don't you want me baby' at the petrol station at least stuck in your mind - who's gonna remember a recent FCA advert for anything other than it being pretty average? Alfa have one of the strongest fan bases in the car industry, but have made absolutely no use of it in the promoting or otherwise. Sack the marketing agency, I say.

The dealer network is a further issue, though as already mentioned they are improving, slowly. There probably are as many good ones as bad ones now, and seperating many of the Alfa/Jeep showrooms from the Fiat part will probably keep the Audi/Merc/BMW brigade from getting too twitchy. That said losing as many small family run dealers as they have and replacing them with the jack of all trades dealerships just because they could stomach the costs to upgrade buildings and signage, with seemingly no thought for how the staff treat the customers really boils by p*ss. If you're going to go down that route with Alfa you need to be aiming for Sytner or HR Owen, not Arnold chuffing Clark or Stoneacre.

Finally only two new (ish) models in the range, both requiring fairly hefty financial commitments and no lower price models to get people into Alfa ownership like a MiTo or Giulietta replacement is a massive own-goal. I said this part years ago and maintain it. FCA are reaping what they sow I'm afraid.
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There’s more to it than advertising. Below the line like working with the lease companies, as Audi did for twenty years or so, to get on the shortlists of company car user-choosers. This is more effective than enormous posters for the Stelvio saying “£299 a month” when the deposit is £12000!
Targeted campaigns like test drive events worked for me twice now as an existing Alfa owner. I’m not sure what the ratio is of retail to fleet on the Stelvio and Giulia but it’s no use cold calling with either group when getting them to drive the cars in the right context would work.
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There’s more to it than advertising.
Absolutely, hence why mine and other peoples posts focus on a variety of areas, but they do need to advertise too. I've not seen a single Alfa advert on TV at all so far in 2019. It's not just about TV either, but given the position they're starting from they need all the help they can get if they actually want to sell cars. If they were trying to get onto fleets then the sales figures are even more worrying!
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They are advertising on TV here in Italy, Giulia and Stelvio models, special models and deals.
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Tv advertising at ,for example £15000 per showing on channel 4 is not good value for money unless you’re shifting a good volume of cars. At 1000 cars per annum ,as with the Stelvio, this means even a campaign using a pan-European ad will prove uneconomic. TV is less than a fifth of most advertising budgets as it’s not considered as popular as it was when my dad used to work on campaigns for Heinz, Cadbury’s etc.
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They are advertising on TV here in Italy, Giulia and Stelvio models, special models and deals.
It becomes more realistic to advertise in Italy where half of European Alfa sales occur.
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Alfa have come out very well in recent reliability surveys, mostly for Giulia. Its exactly the sort of 3rd party recognition of Giulia's brilliance that they need to be shouting from the rooftops with. Has anyone seen any mention of it in FCA's advertising ? Me neither. Bringing these results to Joe publics attention is how you slowly but surely dispel the myth of poor quality. But it has to be said again, FCA management, post production, are f***ing useless.
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Alfa have come out very well in recent reliability surveys, mostly for Giulia. Its exactly the sort of 3rd party recognition of Giulia's brilliance that they need to be shouting from the rooftops with. Has anyone seen any mention of it in FCA's advertising ? Me neither. Bringing these results to Joe publics attention is how you slowly but surely dispel the myth of poor quality. But it has to be said again, FCA management, post production, are f***ing useless.
I had to do my own research to find the above facts out (Giulia in recent surveys top of pile). Most customers wouldn't bother and write off the brand as a result.

Also worth mentioning their halo car (Giulia Quadrifoglio) is desired by many BMW drivers I know of, just they're seriously non-competitive compared to the PCH/Lease deals available in other brands for "similar" cars.
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I had to do my own research to find the above facts out (Giulia in recent surveys top of pile). Most customers wouldn't bother and write off the brand as a result.
Exactly. They need to be shouting about these results, not rely on people to go look for them. This is why advertising, including on TV, is important. I get it's expensive and they don't sell that many cars, but they're never going to sell that many cars if people don't have them in their minds!
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Alfa have come out very well in recent reliability surveys, mostly for Giulia. Its exactly the sort of 3rd party recognition of Giulia's brilliance that they need to be shouting from the rooftops with. Has anyone seen any mention of it in FCA's advertising ? Me neither. Bringing these results to Joe publics attention is how you slowly but surely dispel the myth of poor quality. But it has to be said again, FCA management, post production, are f***ing useless.
The saddest part is that the engineers, designers and factory workers have done a brilliant job. They’ve produced a world beating, extremely reliable product...then it got to the marketing, customer service and after sales people and they completely dropped the ball.
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