The mess that is stop start... - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 55Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 2,172
My new battery (replaced beginning of January this year) is still working perfectly and stop start kicks in no problem still (If I don't switch it off). My car was 21 months old and had done 19,000 miles when it was replaced.
smarty156 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: -
AO Member
 
epsonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Poland
County: Bielsko-Biala
Posts: 636
Garage
yeah, there is no single word mentioned in service news/builetins about hrw not working or battery issues. in my car for hrw issue they started disassembling many things in the car for checks and failed (and they pyt back fan fuse into wrobg location so lost also fan but realized at home).thats why it ends up that forum members digg through forum, get smarter and teach dealers about things. fca aporoach on this is just amateur and disappointing.
epsonix is offline  
(Post Link) post #128 of 156 Old 01-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
County: -
Posts: 36

Member car:

Giulia Petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by smarty156 View Post
My new battery (replaced beginning of January this year) is still working perfectly and stop start kicks in no problem still (If I don't switch it off). My car was 21 months old and had done 19,000 miles when it was replaced.
OK that's useful, does reinforce my theory that the OEM battery is simply not up to muster and fades away fast
U696783 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by U696783 View Post
OK that's useful, does reinforce my theory that the OEM battery is simply not up to muster and fades away fast
Sorry, I don't agree. It is the inadequate charging arrangements which are causing batteries to fail, IMHO.

Perhaps the software updates which have been mentioned in another thread have overcome those limitations. We can but hope.

Andy
jwq likes this.
Andy Bowden is offline  
(Post Link) post #130 of 156 Old 06-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
County: -
Posts: 36

Member car:

Giulia Petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bowden View Post
Sorry, I don't agree. It is the inadequate charging arrangements which are causing batteries to fail, IMHO.

Perhaps the software updates which have been mentioned in another thread have overcome those limitations. We can but hope.

Andy
my reasoning is that the trickle charging doesn't seem to have solved it
U696783 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by U696783 View Post
my reasoning is that the trickle charging doesn't seem to have solved it
I don't think that's inconsistent with my opinion.


Andy
Andy Bowden is offline  
(Post Link) post #132 of 156 Old 07-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
County: -
Posts: 36

Member car:

Giulia Petrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bowden View Post
I don't think that's inconsistent with my opinion.


Andy
Don't get me wrong - I absolutely agree that the charging is a dog's dinner.

Perhaps naively I will see if I can get a formal response from FCA.
U696783 is offline  
Status: I'm so lucky; now on my 11th Alfa Romeo
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 496
Quote:
Originally Posted by U696783 View Post
Don't get me wrong - I absolutely agree that the charging is a dog's dinner.

Perhaps naively I will see if I can get a formal response from FCA.
From *personal experience* of two Giulias, I don't know where the "dog's dinner" bit comes in.

I got Giulia Super 2.0 TB built Nov '16, no problems encountered (there was a s/w recall early on to correct fuel injector 'blocking' but hardly a 'problem'), first annual service Nov' 17 (this is the last date on which it would have had a s/w u/date), parked up for 4 weeks during cold Dec '17/Jan '18 holiday period while I was abroad, took a couple of days of normal running about for HRW and S/S to resume correct operation, traded in Nov '18 (shortly before 2nd annual service was due) with everything still working. Now I have a Nov '18 built Veloce. It too functions correctly. I can't say for certain that the Veloce battery is the same Varta part no. as the Super but it is still an EFB. I don't do mega mileage and have never felt the need to charge either battery.

This is not boasting and I wouldn't wish to tempt fate; it's just a statement of what I have found.

I can well imagine though that if you do lots of short journeys, some auxiliary battery charging might well be necessary (but for that type of usage, shouldn't you have a little plug-in electric vehicle??)

The other thing is that if you have ever completely flattened the battery, it may not ever fully recover.
Scotital is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotital View Post
From *personal experience* of two Giulias, I don't know where the "dog's dinner" bit comes in.

I got Giulia Super 2.0 TB built Nov '16, no problems encountered (there was a s/w recall early on to correct fuel injector 'blocking' but hardly a 'problem'), first annual service Nov' 17 (this is the last date on which it would have had a s/w u/date), parked up for 4 weeks during cold Dec '17/Jan '18 holiday period while I was abroad, took a couple of days of normal running about for HRW and S/S to resume correct operation, traded in Nov '18 (shortly before 2nd annual service was due) with everything still working. Now I have a Nov '18 built Veloce. It too functions correctly. I can't say for certain that the Veloce battery is the same Varta part no. as the Super but it is still an EFB. I don't do mega mileage and have never felt the need to charge either battery.

This is not boasting and I wouldn't wish to tempt fate; it's just a statement of what I have found.

I can well imagine though that if you do lots of short journeys, some auxiliary battery charging might well be necessary (but for that type of usage, shouldn't you have a little plug-in electric vehicle??)

The other thing is that if you have ever completely flattened the battery, it may not ever fully recover.
In two years and 23,000 miles I've had the battery go completely flat once, probably because I didn't shut the car down in the right way. Otherwise I've had no problems. I don't do short journeys, but 2 or 3 weeks can pass without the car being used.

The total discharge may have reduced the battery's effective capacity or longevity, as you point out.

Many are often finding that the heated rear window or STOP/START don't work. The former is a real problem, the latter isn't, certainly not for me as I always try to remember to disable it.

The issue is down to the logic associated with 'intelligent' battery charging and load reduction. It has been reported there's a software update which may improve things. I'll try and get it done at the next service.

Andy
Andy Bowden is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 2,172
I don't use my car every day and when I do it's often shortish journeys apart from the weekend.
My battery was replaced in January as well as a software update.
Since then it's been perfect. Stop start and HRW always working.
Maybe the latest software update has fixed charging logic issues?
smarty156 is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by smarty156 View Post
I don't use my car every day and when I do it's often shortish journeys apart from the weekend.
My battery was replaced in January as well as a software update.
Since then it's been perfect. Stop start and HRW always working.
Maybe the latest software update has fixed charging logic issues?
I very much hope so the new software is the solution, my last software update was about a year ago.

I'll ask for the update and see if I can blag a replacement battery at the next service. Whilst I'm not having problems, I do fear that my battery was weakened when it was discharged totally.

Andy
Andy Bowden is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
epsonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Poland
County: Bielsko-Biala
Posts: 636
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bowden View Post
I very much hope so the new software is the solution, my last software update was about a year ago.

I'll ask for the update and see if I can blag a replacement battery at the next service. Whilst I'm not having problems, I do fear that my battery was weakened when it was discharged totally.

Andy
It was me reporting full charging after BCM/ICP firmware update & correcting country selection to Poland (was Portugal + proxi), however (I reported this on the forum/thread), after a week of city short drives, my battery was charged up to nearly 100%, and then the "inteligent" charging came back, and exist since. So only for short time all worked as I woudl imagine it should.
epsonix is offline  
Status: Putting on the miles now
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 498
My turn to tempt fate, I bought my second Giulia last November, this time a petrol. Maybe there is some kind of software enhancement.

I have had none of the battery/HRW issues I had on my Speciale (which I may have inadvertently knackered the battery having not shut down the car properly one night).

Here's hoping it stays that way.
Alfa Again is offline  
Status: -
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Hugh Myles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sligo, Ireland.
Posts: 1,530
Revisiting this with an update on mine. 180 bhp diesel. Stop start ceased to work about 8 months ago. Didn't notice for a while as other half uses it mostly, but heated rear window/mirrors were working perfectly. Eventually after various dealers closing and another being a ****, got to a dealer with this complaint and a wonky xenon on the passenger side. As seen elsewhere on the forum, the xenon bulb holder, which adjusts up and down via the switch on the dash, had broken out of its socket, and was pointing skywards. The **** wanted to repair it, I insisted on a new lamp, hence the trek to another dealer. He agreed, replace only, and it took a month to secure a new lamp (with a different part number, so obviously an updated design) due to the parts warehouse move. He scanned the ecu's in the meantime to find the cause of the stop start failure and found nothing. Charged the battery, told us to drive on and see how it goes. He would look again when the lamp was ready to fit. Then in quick succession we lost the indicator and sidelight from this lamp. The **** never fitted the covers back on the lamp and there was now water pooling inside it. So when the new lamp was fitted there were a heap of codes to do with this, he cleared them, fitted the lamp and said see if the stop start appears again. He seemed to believe that the wonky lamp was causing it, and with that now fixed the systems would eventually re calibrate. Nothing for a week, then low and behold, it began to cut in. Slowly at first, didn't stop everywhere, now working perfectly. As an aside, and believe me, I'm as mystified at all of this as anyone reading this entire post might be, the engine seems to have found another 20 bhp/40 lb ft somewhere. The trek to the dealer was 2 hours, I drove to it, and home again. On the way home, and ever since, it is pulling much stronger than it ever has. It has always felt on a par with my 156, as it should have, remapped to 187 bhp/300 lb ft 156 vs 180 bhp/330 lb ft Giulia, similar weight. But it is now in a completely different league. I contacted the service manager to ask if he had updated the software or had done something to affect the change, and he is adamant that he didn't. I'd have paid him if he had, and told him that. It really feels like a mild remap. And, as a further bonus, mpg has improved by about 5%. Make of all this what you will, but to me, as a long term Alfa owner, these are the kind of mysterious wonders you get with an Alfa. As it was, so it remains to be. Car is now fantastic again. Happy, and weird, days.
ncl and caymanblack like this.
Hugh Myles is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
County: Italy , UK.
Posts: 102
I must admit i,m really surprised at how good these Alfa Diesel engines are.
caymanblack is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Cheshire
County: -
Posts: 6
Hi All

Sorry to drag up an old-ish thread but I think my question is on topic.
However I am not sure if my symptoms are the same as have been reported her.

I have had my Veloce for about 4 months and have only covered 3500. However my problems seemed to start after a long run of over 200 miles each way and a bit of running about while there.

The main thing I am not sure about are the exact symptoms as I am getting warnings on the dash first a main text warning and symbol saying that the stop start is not currently available. Then after a short time I also get the battery warning (red battery) showing. No message just the symbol. This then switches alternatively with the stop start warning symbol until i switch the engine off.

When i start the car again it seems ok until it gets fully warm. the it all starts again.

Is this related to what you guys had or do i have another fault.
Will be calling the dealer in the morning

Thanks
Ian
WestyK is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestyK View Post
Hi All

Sorry to drag up an old-ish thread but I think my question is on topic.
However I am not sure if my symptoms are the same as have been reported her.

I have had my Veloce for about 4 months and have only covered 3500. However my problems seemed to start after a long run of over 200 miles each way and a bit of running about while there.

The main thing I am not sure about are the exact symptoms as I am getting warnings on the dash first a main text warning and symbol saying that the stop start is not currently available. Then after a short time I also get the battery warning (red battery) showing. No message just the symbol. This then switches alternatively with the stop start warning symbol until i switch the engine off.

When i start the car again it seems ok until it gets fully warm. the it all starts again.

Is this related to what you guys had or do i have another fault.
Will be calling the dealer in the morning

Thanks
Ian
That seems different from what others have experienced.

Andy
Andy Bowden is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Cheshire
County: -
Posts: 6
Thanks Andy.

Maybe JUST! a fault then...Time to see what the dealer is like then.
WestyK is offline  
Status: Petrol head
AO Platinum Member
 
cue2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 30,871
Mangoletsi!
Yeesss....
cue2 is online now  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Cheshire
County: -
Posts: 6
or Swansway Chester?
WestyK is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
matty74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Croston Lancashire
Posts: 1,289
The mess that is stop start...

I had a problem last week, never had any S/S issues or CEL lights either. I don’t really do short journeys as my round trip is 50+miles.

I got S/S unavailable and a CEL Light car went into N mode (DNA not switchable) mid journey ... then read on Giulia US forums about the bonnet switch sensors causing random spurious problems.

https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads...warning.10274/

Checked under my bonnet to find these inductive sensors to be clogged with wet leaves & pollen etc (I park under trees) cleared this away and reset via OBD all faults cleared and been ok since. As an electrician myself I thought “no chance” but I guess the unexpected readings could cause havoc with the cars system.

Code was P026E - Simple ODB app cleared the fault no problem.

For me it’s worth having an OBD dongle, as my dealer of choice is over 2hrs away and I wouldn’t consider any of the closer options.

Worth a look



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Andy Bowden likes this.

Previous Alfas
2001 - 2010 (1999 S)156 2.5 V6 Sport Pack 3 Silver
2008 - 2009 (2004 54) GT 1.9 JTDm Azzurro Blue
2013 - 2015 (2011 61) Guilietta 1.4 TB Multiair White
2015 - 2017 (2011 61) Guilietta 1.4 TB Multiair Red
2010 - 2017 (2007 07) Brera 2.4 JTDm SV Misano Blue
Current Alfa
2017 - (2017 67) Alfa Giulia Veloce Vesuvio Grey

Last edited by matty74; 1 Week Ago at 18:21.
matty74 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
County: Cheshire
Posts: 65

Member car:

Giulia Veloce

Quote:
Originally Posted by matty74 View Post
Code was P026E - Simple ODB app cleared the fault no problem.
That codes is for the secondary intercooler water pump, had this code on my super saloon, new pump fitted after numerous visit to dealer (Mango's) then the pump behind it went rougue and a relay.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...lfunction.html (Start / Stop Malfunction)

4th post down relates to P026E

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...ine-p026e.html (Check Engine - P026e)
Paul1355 is offline  
Status: Waiting..
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Huddersfield
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 162

Member car:

Giulia 2.0 Super

Quote:
Originally Posted by matty74 View Post
I had a problem last week, never had any S/S issues or CEL lights either. I don’t really do short journeys as my round trip is 50+miles.

I got S/S unavailable and a CEL Light car went into N mode (DNA not switchable) mid journey ... then read on Giulia US forums about the bonnet switch sensors causing random spurious problems.
Checked under my bonnet to find these inductive sensors to be clogged with wet leaves & pollen etc (I park under trees) cleared this away and reset via OBD all faults cleared and been ok since. As an electrician myself I thought “no chance” but I guess the unexpected readings could cause havoc with the cars system.

Code was P026E - Simple ODB app cleared the fault no problem.

For me it’s worth having an OBD dongle, as my dealer of choice is over 2hrs away and I wouldn’t consider any of the closer options.

Worth a look



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had the same problem and the car has been with the dealer for 2 weeks now. S/S not available and yellow engine fault light. N mode only.
Had a couple of calls from Milan saying they are still investigating...
a6rnh is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Cheshire
County: -
Posts: 6
Thats interesting.

My current fault with the start stop seems to have corresponded with an electric water pump (so assume the charge cooler) running.
Never heard it before but its quite loud in the cabin. its also odd that it seems to pulse on and off some times and other times it runs all the time and even runs on a little after the engine is off.
Does all the sound normal?

May be a complete red herring but would this cause the stop start unavailable message and the battery light to come on. seems unlikely but who knows. :-)
WestyK is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Cybrnite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: South Milford, Leeds
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 21

Member car:

Giulia Speciale

[QUOTE=matty74;17481091]
Code was P026E - Simple ODB app cleared the fault no problem.

For me it’s worth having an OBD dongle, as my dealer of choice is over 2hrs away and I wouldn’t consider any of the closer options.


Where can we pick up an OBD Dongle?
Cybrnite is online now  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa Giulia

Tags
mess , start , stop

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome