I'm out :( - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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As others have stated, what a sad end to your love affair with your QV.

Have never owned an Alfa so can not comment on dealer performance, but my experience with my local BMW dealer suggests you should be just fine with your M4. I don't know whether it's that I've never owned a 60k+ car before this one, so didn't know what to expect service wise, but I have had niggles with my 6 and the dealer has rectified everything with no hassle, unlike my Jag and Volvo before it. Personally I think dealers should offer a great service whether you are buying a basic spec Mito or fully kitted QV but that obviously doesn't always work out.

My father has a Lexus and even though he has never bought a car from them and probably never will, the service he has had from our local Lexus dealer has been top draw.

I would definitely be firing off some emails to management, you never know, one of them might just care enough to make sure this doesn't happen again to an Alfa owner.

Good luck.
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Brooking, I've PM'd you some further contacts at FCA in the U.K.
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I agree with emailing all the people listed. It may not get you anywhere now but it could help not just others on here but the future owners and the brand as well.
I know it would be greatly appreciated by all on here if you took the time to do so. I certainly would be grateful.
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I suggest FCA should be working pretty hard to avoid a repeat of the Lancia scandal. The same pistonheads writer who experienced the failing Quadrifolio on the track is biting his lip well enough to write a positive article on the Veloce in this week's Autocar.
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I'm gutted, Brooking. Gutted for AR, gutted for John at Motorvogue and mostly, I'm gutted for you. What a disappointing end to what should have been an exciting and fulfilling first year of QV ownership.

I can't say I blame you. Once a car lets you down as yours did on several occasions, it is always difficult to rebuild trust and rekindle the love affair.

Without wishing to be a selfish ****, I really hope this issue is limited to your car and doesn't materialise in mine a few miles down the road.

The M4 comp is a great car and hairdressers throughout Essex will be applauding your choice of the drop top. Enjoy.

PS - rumour has it that Papa Gallo has so enjoyed discussing things with you on here that he's off to the BMW dealer tomorrow to put his order in!
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Very sad to hear your done brooking

you haver been very helpful, as have others, to me on here, and your insights and opinions will be missed. Hopefully you will stick around on here a bit and share your wisdom and updates on how contacting the FCA big wigs pans out, and stay to dilute the few hardcore alfista d*ckheads on here that make it unpleasent for newbies to the marque.

i'm increasingly worried ive made a mistake, and should have waited until late next year to join the alfa club (if at all) so they have a chance to iron out the serious issues. All being well on delivery times my first major run out will be a family wedding down in cornwall in Spetember and i have visions of being stuck by the side of the a4 and a30 after some spirited driving with everyone telling me they told me so for daring to get an Alfa.
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Originally Posted by tpmmpt View Post
Very sad to hear your done brooking

you haver been very helpful, as have others, to me on here, and your insights and opinions will be missed. Hopefully you will stick around on here a bit and share your wisdom and updates on how contacting the FCA big wigs pans out, and stay to dilute the few hardcore alfista d*ckheads on here that make it unpleasent for newbies to the marque.

i'm increasingly worried ive made a mistake, and should have waited until late next year to join the alfa club (if at all) so they have a chance to iron out the serious issues. All being well on delivery times my first major run out will be a family wedding down in cornwall in Spetember and i have visions of being stuck by the side of the a4 and a30 after some spirited driving with everyone telling me they told me so for daring to get an Alfa.
I've said it on another post and I'll continue to say it, if you go on any car forums for any marque there are lots of stories from unhappy owners of the problems they have had. Brooking has undoubtedly been unlucky with his car and I can wholeheartedly understand why he is getting something different. However, do not let this detract from what should for you be an exciting and enjoyable experience of joining the Alfa club.

I've had lots of cars over the years and the only brand I've ever had zero issues with are Subaru (there's a long list of manufacturers where either the dealer or the car or both let me down). Cars are inherently complex pieces of machinery and even the No 1 in terms of reliability (Skoda I believe for the last 2 years) will make cars that go wrong from time to time.

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Originally Posted by tpmmpt View Post
Very sad to hear your done brooking

you haver been very helpful, as have others, to me on here, and your insights and opinions will be missed. Hopefully you will stick around on here a bit and share your wisdom and updates on how contacting the FCA big wigs pans out, and stay to dilute the few hardcore alfista d*ckheads on here that make it unpleasent for newbies to the marque.

i'm increasingly worried ive made a mistake, and should have waited until late next year to join the alfa club (if at all) so they have a chance to iron out the serious issues. All being well on delivery times my first major run out will be a family wedding down in cornwall in Spetember and i have visions of being stuck by the side of the a4 and a30 after some spirited driving with everyone telling me they told me so for daring to get an Alfa.

To provide some comfort my first drive was a 250 jaunt to Cornwall the day I picked up My QV, followed by 1000 miles covered in a week.

No problems at all.

David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
I've said it on another post and I'll continue to say it, if you go on any car forums for any marque there are lots of stories from unhappy owners of the problems they have had. Brooking has undoubtedly been unlucky with his car and I can wholeheartedly understand why he is getting something different.

That's not the point.

The point is Alfa have gone chasing the prestige
market, with prestige cars and prestige prices,
and yet it is the same sad old story when it comes
to sorting out problems and supporting their customers.

It's pitiful. And it's been documented for >15 years here on AO.

We've all had issues, big and small, on multiple Alfas over the years with
rubbish AR service.

They need to:
Sort.
It.
OUT.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
I've said it on another post and I'll continue to say it, if you go on any car forums for any marque there are lots of stories from unhappy owners of the problems they have had. Brooking has undoubtedly been unlucky with his car and I can wholeheartedly understand why he is getting something different. However, do not let this detract from what should for you be an exciting and enjoyable experience of joining the Alfa club.

I've had lots of cars over the years and the only brand I've ever had zero issues with are Subaru (there's a long list of manufacturers where either the dealer or the car or both let me down). Cars are inherently complex pieces of machinery and even the No 1 in terms of reliability (Skoda I believe for the last 2 years) will make cars that go wrong from time to time.
+1

Subaru cars are virtually indestructible, and their permanent 4wd system is the best - even the worst northeastern US winters are not a problem for a Subaru ...
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Originally Posted by TheGrimJeeper View Post
That's not the point.

The point is Alfa have gone chasing the prestige
market, with prestige cars and prestige prices,
and yet it is the same sad old story when it comes
to sorting out problems and supporting their customers.

It's pitiful. And it's been documented for >15 years here on AO.

We've all had issues, big and small, on multiple Alfas over the years with
rubbish AR service.

They need to:
Sort.
It.
OUT.
Are you trying to say that you dont know any owners of other prestige brands that have had car problems or been upset with service they have received from their dealer or manufacturer? If so I can't believe it - I certainly know a few.

Alfa are transitioning and clearly that is proving difficult. Some people are being badly let down like Brooking (both mechanically and service wise) and that is not acceptable. However, we can all look at the past (and tbh its probably a lot longer than 15 years) and complain about how bad the service has been or we can give them a chance to sort out the issues with both the Giulia and their customer service.

I totally agree that if premium prices are being charged for products then the service has to match. This is the first time AR have gone into the premium sector, expectations are understandably higher and I for one am going to give them a bit of time to try and deliver on this. You dont instantly improve a network of dealers overnight.

Hopefully Brooking will feed back his bad experiences to AR and this will go some small way to improving the situation for the rest of us.
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@Brooking10

A sad day mate, but an understandable reaction, given your experience with car and service received...

Best of luck and hope you stick around - even if it's just for the banter (which I would certainly miss!)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
Are you trying to say that you dont know any owners of other prestige brands that have had car problems or been upset with service they have received from their dealer or manufacturer? ...
Strawman.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
Alfa are transitioning and clearly that is proving difficult. Some people are being badly let down like Brooking (both mechanically and service wise) and that is not acceptable. However, we can all look at the past (and tbh its probably a lot longer than 15 years) and complain about how bad the service has been or we can give them a chance to sort out the issues with both the Giulia and their customer service.
Is 15 years not long enough to revamp an organisation?

AO has been around since 2000/01 so okay 16 years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
I totally agree that if premium prices are being charged for products then the service has to match. This is the first time AR have gone into the premium sector, expectations are understandably higher and I for one am going to give them a bit of time to try and deliver on this. You dont instantly improve a network of dealers overnight.
This is not Brooking's 1st run in with ARUK and he's going to be out of pocket on this fiasco.

I know all the arguments about giving AR a chance. We all have made the points you bring up.
But there comes a point when the chances run out.

It's just heartbreaking to see AR, and ARUK specifically, ****ing on their shoes.
They finally have products worth looking at by a large consumer base, and not just a handful of die-hard fans, and they are throwing it away.

Let's Off Road!
O|||||O
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"This is not Brooking's 1st run in with ARUK and he's going to be out of pocket on this fiasco"

He could have rejected the car but he chose an alternative route.
To be honest, having read a lot of posts on here he's been very, very unlucky. AR should have dealt with it better but he's now let them off the hook in a way. In my opinion (and I know it's not Brooking's opinion which is fine) he should have rejected the car. That would have pushed AR into having to deal with the issue and mean he wasn't out of pocket.

If this was happening a lot I'd be worried and everyone should quite rightly be jumping up and down but thankfully it's actually a rare incident. That in itself says a lot for where AR are at now, at least with the product. Now it needs Customer Service to step up too.
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Poor pre-delivery service?

Reading through this post & some others here I'm left thinking the level of service provided by some of your dealers in the UK is very poor. I follow the A45 AMG thread as well & notice similar type of complaints about service. The main issue seems to be the inability to get problems, even small ones, rectified. I wonder if the pre-delivery work is to such a poor standard that cars are leaving the showroom with potential issues.
Down under in New Zealand I've received really good service with both Alfa & Mercedes/AMG. Has me thinking that maybe UK dealerships are just not offering the level of service that we get down here? Of the numerous brands of cars I've owned over the years, including some Japanese units, I've experienced best reliability with Alfa & AMG.
Damm I've probably gone & jinxed that now...

I hope the service level you guys receive improves as anyone looking at this forum might be scared off buying an Alfa, & that would leave them missing something in their lives.
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We used to have an ARUK rep on here trying to sort things. I think he gave up in the end.


France has a poor service culture and I'm back in the clutches of FCA France and am dreading the inevitable interactions with them, but ARUK is definately a basket case compared to them.
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There are two things at play here.

1). ARUK is crap and always has been. If I was going to attempt a massive step upmarket, I'd make damn sure I had several of every model in spare stock, and deploy them to customers if needed. Cars may fail, but at least my customers would be saying "yeah, but the service is brilliant, no complaints at all".

2) Cars are too damn complex and the diagnostics are poor. There is a thread running on pistonheads about a chap with a Volvo having identical issues - the car dies at random intervals. Dealer has had it for about 8 weeks and is currently going over it with an oscilloscope. Cars need to start logging far more data, and making it available - not just error codes, but everything. Until they do, dealers will be left with these lemon cars that can't be fixed.
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There are two things at play here.

1). ARUK is crap and always has been. If I was going to attempt a massive step upmarket, I'd make damn sure I had several of every model in spare stock, and deploy them to customers if needed. Cars may fail, but at least my customers would be saying "yeah, but the service is brilliant, no complaints at all".

2) Cars are too damn complex and the diagnostics are poor. There is a thread running on pistonheads about a chap with a Volvo having identical issues - the car dies at random intervals. Dealer has had it for about 8 weeks and is currently going over it with an oscilloscope. Cars need to start logging far more data, and making it available - not just error codes, but everything. Until they do, dealers will be left with these lemon cars that can't be fixed.
It is bizarre that the error handling is so shocking. I can understand the need to make sure that the software does not give too much away, otherwise that makes it open to assault. However, the fact that the error codes hardly seem to have progressed in 20 years is somewhat disturbing. Even if these codes cannot be accessed properly by the owner, there is absolutely no reason the catch for these errors should not be fully reported by the car to the dealer, even on the fancy screens they have.

Clearly if there is an error, then there should be a trace as to why that happened, otherwise, why would it be there to catch as a code readout?! It just seems instead of the dealers being able to fully diagnose the problem, every problem is actually a long-running war between the dealer, and Alfa Romeo.
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CEL and loss of power plus ATV diff light - both fixed after a couple of restarts.


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What's a CEL?
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What's a CEL?
Check Engine Light?
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Strawman.






Is 15 years not long enough to revamp an organisation?

AO has been around since 2000/01 so okay 16 years.





This is not Brooking's 1st run in with ARUK and he's going to be out of pocket on this fiasco.

I know all the arguments about giving AR a chance. We all have made the points you bring up.
But there comes a point when the chances run out.

It's just heartbreaking to see AR, and ARUK specifically, ****ing on their shoes.
They finally have products worth looking at by a large consumer base, and not just a handful of die-hard fans, and they are throwing it away.
You clearly have your own opinions on AR formed over many more years than mine. Perhaps you've had first-hand experience of this type of issue which I'm sure would leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Personally I'm going to continue to give AR the benefit of the doubt for now and hope that other potential and recent purchasers will continue to do the same. There are a few new members already fearing they've made the wrong decision in going down the Alfa route and the point I am trying to make is not to take one major problem as a sign that all cars/dealers are turkeys. They're not.
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Quote:
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You clearly have your own opinions on AR formed over many more years than mine. Perhaps you've had first-hand experience of this type of issue which I'm sure would leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Personally I'm going to continue to give AR the benefit of the doubt for now and hope that other potential and recent purchasers will continue to do the same. There are a few new members already fearing they've made the wrong decision in going down the Alfa route and the point I am trying to make is not to take one major problem as a sign that all cars/dealers are turkeys. They're not.
How many bullets would you take to the chest before you'd believe you've been shot?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex View Post
You clearly have your own opinions on AR formed over many more years than mine. Perhaps you've had first-hand experience of this type of issue which I'm sure would leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Personally I'm going to continue to give AR the benefit of the doubt for now and hope that other potential and recent purchasers will continue to do the same. There are a few new members already fearing they've made the wrong decision in going down the Alfa route and the point I am trying to make is not to take one major problem as a sign that all cars/dealers are turkeys. They're not.
Trouble is, and I agree with you to a fair extent, it's easy to say this kind of thing if your own car is OK.

The real tests are: (1) how much would you be prepared to put up with if it was happening to your car, and to a lesser extent, (2) if you hadn't already bought a car, how much of this stuff would it take to put you off?
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How many bullets would you take to the chest before you'd believe you've been shot?
I personally think Brooking gave them a fair chance and they didn't sort it. I'm not sure anyone is disputing that. I think some people just need to take a step back and look at the number of issues being raised (on a forum where people come to raise issues) to realise it's not a universal or big problem (unless you're Brooking!).
I think I would have given them the amount of time Brooking did.
However, AR, knowing it had been faulty 3 times already, should have been all over this and offered to take it off him for a proper check, with a replacement car. One of the Millbrook cars if needed.
I would have rejected it. It would give them the pain of now having a used car with a fault in their system that they need to deal with.

Brooking - after the Swiss debacle did you go back to the supplying dealer to get ARUK involved?
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I think some people just need to take a step back and look at the number of issues being raised (on a forum where people come to raise issues) to realise it's not a universal or big problem
Whilst this is generally wise, a few things - there aren't that many different people on here, not that many Giulias sold at all in the UK, and quite a few cases of incidents doing the rounds (other forums are available, not to mention press coverage).

Now given how many thousands they've sold in total, worldwide, I think statistically there are probably few major problems, but for now this forum isn't very good evidence of either good or bad quality.
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