Busso 12v engine rebuild help - opinions needed! - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 5Likes
  • 3 Post By killergame
  • 1 Post By 75evo
  • 1 Post By mj2k
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 24 Old 11-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Busso 12v engine rebuild help - opinions needed!

Since there are probably many people more experienced than me at engine rebuilding (I normally just drop in a replacement short or complete engine) I thought maybe someone could offer some opinions on this?

It's a 3.0 12v Busso which has been standing for many, many years, generally it doesn't look very worn at all, but I'm a bit worried about the state of the wet liners, esp as they're virtually irreplaceable now...

What do you (collectively) reckon - rescue-able or have I got a nice pile of parts for another Busso?


Cylinder heads look virtually new except for the corrosion in the waterways




Crankshaft looks pretty good too, may not need any attention whatsoever





Well, assuming this is a normal cutout for cylinder 1 that is:




Bearings are very good too (as were the pistons, not pictured):






Oil seals were, er not so good




Look at this build-up of grot between the pistons! (I'm hoping a jetwash and good scrub with a toothbrush will get rid of this)






And now for the bit which concerns me more - corrosion in the bores. Hopefully honing will get rid of most of it:








But there are two things which worry me

There's a chunk missing out of the bottom of one of the wet liners. I get the nasty feeling I might have knocked this off when turning the engine over for the first time in years - it looks new.


Much more serious corrosion in one of the bores - feels like an 80s Fiat wheelarch when you run your fingers across it!
mj2k is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #2 of 24 Old 11-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

BTW corrosion hasn't been caused by head gasket failure - the engine was standing with it's plugs out and by the looks of it some insect or other similar thingy had built a nest in the most corroded liner, and there was a desiccated, mold covered dead mouse stuck in the v between the two banks of pistons
mj2k is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
killergame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Bre˛ice
County: -Slovenia
Posts: 25
Garage
Hi,

I saw your comment on my thread about engine rebuild. Thanks for the post

Huh about your engine. Crankshaft I would only polish, even though it looks good, but polish with new bearings will make it last longer.

Inside engine block between cylinders, it looks horrible. I have seen many V6 engines in bad condition and corrosion, but yours is even worse Try to clean that first and then try to take out liners. That one broken at the bottom is probably someone tried to take them out with something metal (you must never do that!) and broke it. You need to do that with some hard plastic or wood. I wouldn't use this broken one. And the one with bad corrosion, even after flexhone, many little holes from rust will probably stay in liner wall. You can take 5 "good" ones and flexhone them, then check very good and also measure them carefully.

If they are no good, I have used the ones from 3.0 V6 24V engine. Mostly they are in much better condition then in 12V. If you have any questions for help, write me
Avocet, sizewell and mj2k like this.

3.0 V6 12V Arese POWER!
2.0 TS Nord POWER!

- Alfa 164 3.0 V6 12V QV
- Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 16V 2005
- EX Alfa 156 SW 1.9 JTD 8V 2000
- EX Alfa 164 2.5 TDx2
- EX Alfa 164 2.0 TS
- EX Alfa Giulietta 2.0
killergame is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 24 Old 17-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by killergame View Post
Hi,

I saw your comment on my thread about engine rebuild. Thanks for the post

Huh about your engine. Crankshaft I would only polish, even though it looks good, but polish with new bearings will make it last longer.

Inside engine block between cylinders, it looks horrible. I have seen many V6 engines in bad condition and corrosion, but yours is even worse Try to clean that first and then try to take out liners. That one broken at the bottom is probably someone tried to take them out with something metal (you must never do that!) and broke it. You need to do that with some hard plastic or wood. I wouldn't use this broken one. And the one with bad corrosion, even after flexhone, many little holes from rust will probably stay in liner wall. You can take 5 "good" ones and flexhone them, then check very good and also measure them carefully.

If they are no good, I have used the ones from 3.0 V6 24V engine. Mostly they are in much better condition then in 12V. If you have any questions for help, write me
Great, thanks for the advice I was wondering if 24v ones from the later GTV etc with the crankshaft-driven pump would work but didn;t want to risk it. I'll try and pick up a set if the 'good' 12v set I found on Ebay aren't as good as they appear to be.

I think because the engine had been stranding for so long without the upper part of the water pump and plugs something had got into it and made a nest, the stuff inside certainly doesn't look like normal corrosion But if I am lucky everything should come out with a good jetwash. Hopefully the heads aren't completely clogged, but I have managed to source another set of 12v heads if they are ruined, so I'll just need to find some extra cash to buy them.
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #5 of 24 Old 28-04-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Finally got the liners out (they were so badly rusted in place I bent my puller so ended up clamping them and having to smash them out with a lump hammer) and cleaned up the block:



Looking good, except for these two rather worrying areas of what I can only describe as cavitation on the centre cylinder in both banks. Does this mean the block is scrap?


mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #6 of 24 Old 07-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Thanks to a wheelbarrow full of parts I bought (I think from @redalfaracer , thanks for that) I now have 18 cylinder liners, 12 pistons (4 have gone in the bin), 14 gudgeon pins and 15 con rods to make a choice from

None of the choices are easy - all but two of the original 'b spec' cylinder liners are junk so they'll be going straight in the bin. The set I bought separately off Ebay all have small chips out of the bases and 2 are scrap, so I've got 4 useable ones there. But they're 'c spec' so won't match my 'b spec' pistons. And then I have 2 nice separate liners from the wheelbarrrow, but they've got a fair bit of surface corrosion and no discernible markings to say what spec they are, plus a full set of 'b spec' liners which also came from the wheelbarrow, with no chips. I'd be choosing the final full set of liners, but for one thing - they're all scored so may have suffered from a partial seize (wonder if they came from the yellow 164 below?)



http://www.nyssaracing.com/bigyeller.jpg

Pistons would be a no brainer (use the originals) except for one minor issue - one of the piston crowns was so badly corroded it's got a 2mm deep indentation in it, and the other set of pistons (from the wheelbarrow) seem good, but once again have scratches near the bottom of the skirt and slightly worn gudgeon pins.

And as for the conrods - 2 of them don't have matching big end caps, 6 of them have visible wear in the little end, and 2 of them have corrosion (guess where they came from) so bad the gudgeon pin no longer moves freely.

So I'm going to be spending some unexpected quality time with my micrometers and a nice, new bore gauge I'm waiting for from Ebay before I assemble anything, to try and get the best set of parts I can before sticking it back together. I'd consider saving up to get all new pistons, conrods and liners if this was a 24v 164 engine, but I'm going to resist the temptation for this crusty 12v block.

BTW here's an interesting tip for cheapskates like me - if you're doing the glazebusting yourself stick the glaze buster in a nice, old fashioned hand drill. It's much easier to get the necessary 45 degree cross hatch when the drill speed and depth is totally under your control, and moving slowly enough for you to see exactly what it's doing.

Last edited by mj2k; 07-05-19 at 16:12.
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #7 of 24 Old 10-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Managed to assemble a good set (I hope!) of pistons, conrods and liners, half way through cleaning them up and then I can at least refit the pistons / liners.

Couple of quick 'noob' questions before I do that though:
1) on the old pistons the gudgeon pin rotated freely (on the non-corroded ones) as the conrod was moved, on the replacement ones the gudgeon pin doesn't move at all. Which way is correct when cold?
2) There is a 20g weight difference between a pair of assembled pistons / conrods on opposite sides of the engine, pistons weigh about the same so it must be something to do with conrod balance weights. Should I try and find a pair which match in weight better, or leave well alone?

Last edited by mj2k; 10-05-19 at 12:11.
mj2k is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ipoh, Malaysia
Posts: 223
I think 20g is a fair bit different. Are the pistons the same? What about rods? Did you get one piston from a QV and another from a non-QV? There might be small casting differences between production runs. Older rods have oil squirters at the small end, but newer rods do not. So sometimes mixing and matching parts require some machining to get all the weights to be the same.

When JimK was doing his 3.0 and 3.2 build, I saw his piston weight difference, within 1-2 grams. Now if the rods were also within 1-2 grams, then you could have only upto 4 grams difference for the piston and rods (not including pins, rings, clips). So 20g is way off. I'm not sure if that is within factory specs, but I think that is too much.

Try to look for some references here:

ALFAGTV6.COM - Search

Or look at the earlier 3.0 24V build

http://alfagtv6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic...+weight#p45925

He even documented his 3.0 12V build somewhere on the forum as well.

I know this is not a race engine, but the closer you get all weights of the reciprocating parts, the better it will be in terms of smoothness and longevity (bearing wear).
mj2k likes this.

2006 Honda Accord CL9 Type S 6-Speed
1996 155 2.5 V6, Squadra Tuning, RJR Cams
1995 164 Super 3.0 24V
2001 156 3.0 V6, Jim Kartalamakis 10mm cams,
1987 75 3.2 V6, Jim Kartalamakis 10mm cams, Stage2 Injectors, Autronic SM3 & CDI 500R

Last edited by 75evo; 11-05-19 at 07:36.
75evo is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 24 Old 11-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
I think 20g is a fair bit different. Are the pistons the same? What about rods? Did you get one piston from a QV and another from a non-QV? There might be small casting differences between production runs. Older rods have oil squirters at the small end, but newer rods do not. So sometimes mixing and matching parts require some machining to get all the weights to be the same.

When JimK was doing his 3.0 and 3.2 build, I saw his piston weight difference, within 1-2 grams. Now if the rods were also within 1-2 grams, then you could have only upto 4 grams difference for the piston and rods (not including pins, rings, clips). So 20g is way off. I'm not sure if that is within factory specs, but I think that is too much.

Try to look for some references here:

ALFAGTV6.COM - Search

Or look at the earlier 3.0 24V build

My engine 3.0 V6 24V - Page 3 - ALFAGTV6.COM

He even documented his 3.0 12V build somewhere on the forum as well.

I know this is not a race engine, but the closer you get all weights of the reciprocating parts, the better it will be in terms of smoothness and longevity (bearing wear).
Thanks, and very true This is only the first iteration of the engine and I'd like to rebuild it using forged pistons / rods when funds allow so I can tune it a bit (or maybe start with a 164 24v), but even in a 'cooking' standard road engine I can imagine 20g difference would create some serious NVH at higher rpm.

I was planning to reuse the original pistons / rods which came with the engine but two of the original pistons had rusted onto the gudgeon pins so I figured that wouldn't be very wise, so used a set of separate pistons / rods I had from a collection of parts I bought from an ex 164 racer. Pistons were all within a couple of grams of each other but rod weights were all over the place; I assumed since they had a matching number sequence stamped into them that they were from the same engine and that the difference was down to balancing but they could well have all been from different engines.

Guess I'd better get the pistons / rods separated and weight-match them better rather than relying on the numbers
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #10 of 24 Old 11-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Weight matching done - by swapping one super-heavy rod and some judicious fiddling about with gudgeon pins / rods I've managed to get the weights as below, which should be good enough for a road engine:

1219 1218
1219 1222
1225 1225

I checked by heating them in the oven and the gudgeon pins move fine when they're a few degrees hotter so no need to worry about that, and they don't look too bad either:




So I can start to stick stuff back together
75evo likes this.

Last edited by mj2k; 11-05-19 at 15:51.
mj2k is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ipoh, Malaysia
Posts: 223
What you have now is pretty good. But if you have a bit of time, shave a few grams off the heavy ones. Make the 25s down to 22s and you’re set. But if not, what you have right now should be ok.
75evo is offline  
(Post Link) post #12 of 24 Old 12-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
What you have now is pretty good. But if you have a bit of time, shave a few grams off the heavy ones. Make the 25s down to 22s and you’re set. But if not, what you have right now should be ok.
Think I'll leave it be for the moment - I have a terrible tendency to break expensive things on Alfas when I try to 'improve' them a little, I need to stick to the old adage "if it ain't bust, don't fix it". I'll be leaving the lightening / balancing to the 'pros' in the next iteration of the engine
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #13 of 24 Old 13-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

I've just been very naughty, assuming they're shipped with no problems I have a set of these on order from a tuning shop in Italy, £620 plus shipping so couldn't resist

https://www.tjmotorsport.co.uk/prodd...php?prod=K9144
mj2k is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ipoh, Malaysia
Posts: 223
Get the maxspeeding rods, they’re dirt cheap, strong and light. Probably £300. With a lightened flywheel, the engine will rev like mad. In for a penny, in for a pound.
75evo is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 24 Old 14-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
Get the maxspeeding rods, they’re dirt cheap, strong and light. Probably £300. With a lightened flywheel, the engine will rev like mad. In for a penny, in for a pound.
I was (enthusiastically) looking at those, but they're made in China and there have been some alarming reports about quality control, with some rods twisting so badly they work the gudgeon pin out, or one report of a rod snapping in half at high rpm in a race engine

I'm not going to be using the pistons yet (they're for 'v2' which might be turbocharged ) but when I do for once I probably won't go for the cheapest option, and will instead buy a 'name' brand of forged rods instead to be on the safe side. Oh, and lightened flywheel / pulley will most definitely be on the cards for that
mj2k is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ipoh, Malaysia
Posts: 223
Jim and I both use those rods. He had them tested to check its metallurgical properties. Can’t guarantee each batc is the same, but mine has been good so far, which is a lot better than stock rods. Stock rods are good though.
75evo is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 24 Old 14-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75evo View Post
Jim and I both use those rods. He had them tested to check its metallurgical properties. Can’t guarantee each batc is the same, but mine has been good so far, which is a lot better than stock rods. Stock rods are good though.
There are certainly a lot of people very happy with Maxspeeding rods, but there are also quite a few people who have ended up bringing their engine home in a bucket after a rod failure, e.g.



Getting them tested would be a very good plan I can find some way of doing it cheaply, it's that quality variance between batches that worries me. Maxspeeding is AKA Jihongyun(UK) Trade Development Co. Limited, and Chinese manufacturers are notorious for skimping on the QA to save a few quid if they can get away with it. Chances are they're exactly the same rods as the 'name' brands apart from the QA though (maybe even made in the same factory), and the big end bolts (which tbh many suspect cause the failures).

Edit: Heh, unless I got some shipped in from the USA for over $1200 (Eagle, Carrello, etc) all the other ones look exactly the same as Maxspeedingrods, right down to having exactly the same sales blurb and 'bolt options'! Since maxspeedingrods will happily laser-etch their rods with a different logo, I think I can guess where many of the £6-800 sets come from... Might as well see how much they can do a set without bolts for, and then order in some genuine ARP bolts to hold it together

Last edited by mj2k; 14-05-19 at 15:38.
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #18 of 24 Old 15-05-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

I got a reply from Maxspeedingrods - they can send a set for $345 including delivery from Hong Kong. But after import duty and VAT that'd be more expensive than buying from the UK with the bolts!

Still, that's an interesting one - most of the 'clone' rods come from China but maxpeedingrods come from Hong Kong, and they're considerably more expensive than the Chinese ones (which can be had from $20 per rod, minimum order 20)...

I know the Maxpeedingrods dimensions were re-specced by a specialist in the UK when it was realized their rods were being made 'handed' but only for one side; wonder which version of the spec the clones are using?
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #19 of 24 Old 12-08-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Time for a quick update - I've got that nice set of forged pistons in the garage waiting to be fitted, and since I was having so much trouble trying to find a flywheel which fitted I ended up buying a rather nice looking 2.5 75 engine complete with loom and all the necessary brackets to make a complete rwd engine.

It's going to be stripped of the useful bits (which is a shame in some ways because it appears to be in excellent condition) which will be put on the 3.0, and the plan is to fit the gtv-style 2.5 'long' crankshaft to it after stripping it down a bit so I can sell on a cheap, useable 2.5 gtv engine to someone who needs it, and keep the 75 2.5 flywheel and crankshaft for my project

Watch this space for a few subproject pics...
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #20 of 24 Old 13-08-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Started stripping down the 2.5 v6, which was supposedly from a 75. Pulley bolt came off incredibly easily - knocked out the staking and hit it with an impact wrench and off it came!



Also took off the pipework on top of the thermostat housing; you can clearly see here the difference between the 'stat housing on the 164 and 75:



Pipe outlets are on opposite sides

And then stripped off the inlets / fuel injector rail (which look identical to the gtv6 ones I've got already):



Then finally stripped off the flywheel cover, battery earth strap and flywheel:





Hmm, interesting. The flywheel has the same serial number as the old GTV6 one I've got, and the engine serial number looks like a gtv6 one too



So here's an interesting question - is the 2.5 v6 from a 75 identical to the gtv6 block, i.e. the block and crankshaft are 4mm longer than the 3.0 v6 but identical to the Alfetta 2.5v6, or have I got a gtv6 engine here in remarkably good conditon for it's age, with brackets for 75 ancillaries bolted on?
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #21 of 24 Old 31-08-19 Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

I stripped the 2.5 down further, and going by the principal of duck typing (if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be pretty sure what it is) I'll assume this is a 2.5 v6 from a 116 GTV rather than a 75. It's got the long crank and seemingly matching serial number, and the only 75-specific bits seem to be much less 'stuck' when I unbolt them than the rest of the engine so could well have been fitted afterwards.

Unfortunately this also means the engine had been sitting for much longer than expected, and was in a similar state internally to the 3.0, only with a scored crankshaft too. Shame really, the bores, though rusty, still have the original honing marks, so this really must have been a low mileage engine (though presumably oil changes were neglected judging by the crankshaft scoring and black sludge everywhere).










Soo, what to do with the engine? There are quite a few useful bits and bobs for my main build, but the 2.5 itself won't be much use to me. So time to give those bores a quick hone, fit a decent unrusted set of rings, and reassemble it for someone else to have a go at a rebuild I guess, once I have all the bits and bobs off it which I want.
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #22 of 24 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

That's it, bottom end done at last!




Since I couldn't find an Alfa 75 flywheel anywhere it's ended up being a low compression (approx 8.0:1) 2.8 using the 3.0 block / liners and crankshaft / flywheel from a 2.5 gtv6.

I was planning to use the lovely forged high compression pistons I got (plus new lightweight rods) to make a turbocharged engine eventually, but realized:
  1. The 2.5 crankshaft isn't nitrided so will get damaged more easily
  2. Putting 300ish BHP through a chassis designed for a max of 168 (in the turbodelta) would be a bit silly
  3. It should still make all the correct Busso noises but I won't have to worry so much about using strenghtened transmission components or blowing the standard transaxle to smithereens
  4. It should work fine with the standard 75-type l-jetronic ignition / injection system which I have in full, which will save me having to spend another age searching for bits to complete the partial 164 motronic system I've got

So now, at last, I can move onto doing the heads and then transaxle

All of which means I've got a big list of excess bits which I won't be using:
those lovely Wossner forged pistons - brand new and unopened
gtv6 2.5 short block - I've been prattling on about it here
Alfa 164 loom - untested but all appears to be intact
Alfa 164 Motronic ecu - type 0 261 200 11. Untested but contacts look good
75 / gtv6 inlet trumpets and injectors - not tested, assume the injectors will need a clean!
75 / gtv6 2.5 12v cylinder heads - appear to be in great condition. I've kept the oil pump drive and camshaft sprockets but could stick an old, rusty set on if you need them
75 / 164 3.0 12v crankshaft - seems to be in pretty good condition from my measurements
156, etc 2.5 24v crankshaft - appears almost unused
164 3.0 12v inlets plus Motronic injectors Not used in ages so will definitely need a clean!
164 3.0 12v 'distributor' plus cover, cap and rotor Rotor arm isn't the best, but the rest is in good condition
164 3.0 12v 'distributor' Not the greatest, but it turns ok
164 3.0 12v 'distributor' Not the greatest, but it turns ok
916 gtv, etc 24v rocker covers - good condition
116 gtv6, etc 12v rocker covers - good condition
75 / gtv6 Busso sump - good condition, but will need gaskets. Just what you need for a fwd to rwd Busso conversion, along with:
Alfa 75 / gtv6 oil pump - Some scoring on rotor and can't claim it's perfect / unused, but it's within tolerances, and at least you know what you'd be getting
Alfa 164 12v oil pump - Some scoring on rotor and can't claim it's perfect / unused, but it's within tolerances, and at least you know what you'd be getting
Alfa 164 12v oil pump with pickup - This one's in surprisingly good condition
Random 75 / gtv6 / 164 12v oil pump bits - Rescued from the bottom of a parts box, may come in useful to someone
75 / gtv6 / 164 12v main bearing caps - Another rescue from the parts box. Seem to be in pretty good condition

Please let me know on here if I've overpriced (or dramatically underpriced) anything, and drop me a PM if you want any of the bits; I'll knock 20% off Ebay prices (as long as it's more than £20 worth) but postage might be more because I won't get Ebay discounted postage rates.
mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #23 of 24 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Underneath all the muck the heads aren't in bad condition - no signs of damage to the seats and I can't detect any wear in the guides yet, so this must have been one heck of a nice engine before it was laid up. However there is some cavitation on the underside of the heads where corrosion had been eating away at it, and the exhaust valves are all pitted by rust on their top sides; the exhaust manifolds weren't fitted so they were the most exposed to the elements.

So there's a moral in here - make good use of your best assets before old age takes it's toll

Still, as I was looking through the valve seats to the inlet / exhaust ports I realized just what a beautifully engineered thing the Busso is - the paths are almost dead straight! Probably goes some way to explaining the lovely noise they make.

Before:



After:




Typical valve seat:



Impressive sight:


mj2k is online now  
(Post Link) post #24 of 24 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Status: 1 Subaru, 2 Bussos,noAlfa!
AO Silver Member
 
mj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
County: Herts
Posts: 1,588
Garage

Member car:

Subaru Legacy H6

Head number 1 (for pistons 1-3, and with the oil pump drive) is much more pitted and rotted than the other head (you can see the state of it in the bottom left of this pic):



It's just about useable since the pitting doesn't extend into the ring where the liner meets the had gasket, but it's still pretty bad, and all the exhaust valves are rust-pitted too. Skimming wouldn't work because the pitting's so deep, so it'd be sensible to try and find a new head, or heads

The 2.5 heads won't fit (well, they would, but it'd do weird things to the compression and the valves are smaller so airflow would be affected), so looks like I'm now on the lookout for a new pair of heads (preferably with valves). Anyone got a 3.0 12v head or heads they fancy selling off reasonably cheaply?
mj2k is online now  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 75, RZ, SZ

Tags
12v , busso , engine , needed , opinions , rebuild

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome