Sportronic/drive axle issue - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 3Likes
  • 1 Post By abecketts
  • 1 Post By John Sahl
  • 1 Post By sprint_veloce
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 15 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Sportronic/drive axle issue

Lots of things sorted, next problem occurs...

When driving over small bumps, there was an obvious “clonk”-noise. I have been trying to figure out what it was, changing suspension components, only to find out that the noise is from the axle coming out of the diff.

See the video here:

Any tips/solutions are welcome! I fear its an engine out job, but hope that its not a dead gearbox sort of thing?
John Sahl is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #2 of 15 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Seems to be subframe down and then just two new diff bearings (partnumber 7655061) ?
John Sahl is online now  
(Post Link) post #3 of 15 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Anyone on here with knowledge/experience on this thing. Am I right in thinking it will be alright after changing the diff bearings and the two axle seals? Or am I looking at a potential broken diff?
John Sahl is online now  
(Post Link) post #4 of 15 Old 6 Days Ago
Status: Cheers
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Wiltshire UK
County: -
Posts: 474
If the car is still driving despite the knocking noise I’d agree with the post saying bearings are your problem. Not sure if you need to drop the subframe as we’ve just dismantled a 2.5 sportronic and could extract the driveshafts without removing the subframe but perhaps it is needed to get access to the bearings.
John Sahl likes this.
abecketts is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 15 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by abecketts View Post
If the car is still driving despite the knocking noise I’d agree with the post saying bearings are your problem. Not sure if you need to drop the subframe as we’ve just dismantled a 2.5 sportronic and could extract the driveshafts without removing the subframe but perhaps it is needed to get access to the bearings.
It is driving perfectly, I hope that it is only the bearings, then it's a cheap fix as I put in the hours/labour myself :-)
Mufasa likes this.
John Sahl is online now  
(Post Link) post #6 of 15 Old 6 Days Ago
Status: Building a Berlina 1750 GTAm
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Posts: 422
Well the left side driveshaft is removable in-car withput fettling with the subframe. Access to the bolts on the driveshaft is pretty decent. I’m not sure if you need to drop the subframe to replace the bearings though... could be that is were the fun starts but a subframe drop isn’t that hard really.
FAssarsson is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 15 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
If you look here, it's clear that the gearbox have to come out, as the diff is inside of the gearbox housing

http://www.eastment.net/4hp20/diff2.jpg

I am going to try pulling the driveshafts out to have a look/feel, before going full monty on it ;-)

Last edited by John Sahl; 5 Days Ago at 09:12.
John Sahl is online now  
(Post Link) post #8 of 15 Old 5 Days Ago
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Estonia
County: Harjumaa
Posts: 9

Member car:

166 3.0

I’ve heard similar noise in my car. After seeing your video, I checked it... and there it is: same thing. I look forward to your explorations and ideas
-taf- is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 15 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by -taf- View Post
I’ve heard similar noise in my car. After seeing your video, I checked it... and there it is: same thing. I look forward to your explorations and ideas

Is your car also an automatic?
John Sahl is online now  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Estonia
County: Harjumaa
Posts: 9

Member car:

166 3.0

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sahl View Post
Is your car also an automatic?
Yes, it is. I’ll try to find some answers too, but there will be no hands on work in July.
I hope there’s an easy solution, because the car (and the box) is in good shape.
-taf- is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Zealand
County: -
Posts: 2,597
I know it seems crazy, but that's apparently how they are. I noticed the same years ago on my 156 q-system (different autobox of course), checked with my mechanic and he said don't worry, they're all like that. Been using it for years since I noticed and no problem.
-taf- likes this.
sprint_veloce is online now  
(Post Link) post #12 of 15 Old 5 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprint_veloce View Post
I know it seems crazy, but that's apparently how they are. I noticed the same years ago on my 156 q-system (different autobox of course), checked with my mechanic and he said don't worry, they're all like that. Been using it for years since I noticed and no problem.
I know they do have a little play, but mine is knocking everytime I hit a bump. That has to stop because that is not normal and it never did before.
John Sahl is online now  
Status: Remembering why I dislike working on old cars....
AO Silver Member
 
ChrisS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 2,687

Member car:

Mercedes C350e

The play is more likely to be coming from the side gears into the carrier (and a bit from the shafts into the side gears) than the main diff taper roller bearings I think. These are a plain bearing and aren’t exactly a snug fit when new. Worth a look if you fancy the effort I suppose?
ChrisS is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 15 Old 4 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: Getting the full Alfa-experience
AO Member
 
John Sahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Denmark
County: -
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS View Post
The play is more likely to be coming from the side gears into the carrier (and a bit from the shafts into the side gears) than the main diff taper roller bearings I think. These are a plain bearing and aren’t exactly a snug fit when new. Worth a look if you fancy the effort I suppose?

I would think it was this bearing? (And the opposite one)

John Sahl is online now  
Status: Remembering why I dislike working on old cars....
AO Silver Member
 
ChrisS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 2,687

Member car:

Mercedes C350e

I’ve never seen a bad diff bearing on a manual box, and that assembly is very similar. If they were bad, you’d be getting some serious ‘grumble’ from it. The issue is far more likely the side gear bearing in the carrier and the shaft into the side gear. The side gear bearing is plain steel on steel and the shaft, although a decent fit into the side gear isn’t all that tight and though there is no relative rotation between shaft and side gear of course, there is wear caused by torque changes which cause it to become more sloppy over time.

Sadly, the only way to find out is to strip it I think, although if the 4HP20 manual has a rolling torque figure for the main diff bearings, you could maybe measure that in-situ with just the driveshafts removed and that might give you a clue.

The last manual box I put new bearings in was only because I’d changed the diff for a Q2 and that had none fitted. The original bearings were perfect. The side gears however, not so much. The play visible on your video is pretty bad though, certainly somewhat worse than I recall from my own Sporto when I had it and was messing around that area. That said, the Sporto was worse than any manual box I’d played with up to that point.

What I’m getting at is this. I’m not saying it can’t be the main bearings, just that it isn’t likely at all, and if you do get in there and find the main bearings are OK, the only fix for the issue is a new diff, so be prepared for that. It’s been a while, but ISTR being somewhat put off by the thought of digging into that auto box. Looked like more than a few special tools needed. The manual box holds no terrors though.

A thought. Remove that driveshaft, then see if you can feel how much movement there is between side gear and diff housing. It’s a big enough chunk of metal that you won’t move the diff by gently moving the side gear up and down and side to side. If the side gear moves, there’s your problem. If it doesn’t, see if you can measure the bore of the side gear and the OD of the shaft stub and see how they compare. If that is good then maybe it is the main diff bearings. I appreciate none of that is easy given the location and layout though.
ChrisS is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 164 & 166

Tags
axle , issue , sportronic or drive

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome