159 weight.. Where? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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159 weight.. Where?

This might be a stupid question, but why is the 159 heavier compared to the 05 bmw for example?
it shouldn´t be because of a lot of small parts...
The extra weight must be somewhere...
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See...I'm confused because it doesn't seem to be from these stats:

Alfa Romeo 159 Saloon (06-11) 1.9 JTDM 16V 4d - MPG, Dimensions & Performance | Parkers

BMW 5-Series Saloon (03-10) 520d 4d - MPG, Dimensions & Performance | Parkers

Standard 1.9 vs 520d from around same era

So yeah..don't know
They did a lot of weight reduction for the 08 plate onwards afaik in the 159 - I think the glass was double thickness and stuff like that for noise reduction
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how can it justify to be that heavy compared to a bmw 3 or an a4?
mine has the 1.9 8v not that much extras and the weight is messured 1650kg!!!! ( 40 kg fuel)
on a truck scale...imagine if i had electric seats, sunroof, folding mirrors, 18´s with 235 tires and so on... brembos bigger disks, roof rails,
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There wasn't that much weight reduction from 2008.
Just a tiny amount plus lots of hot air from the marketing dept!

The 159 is a heavy car, but according to ePER the shell itself is actually lighter than a 156, so the potential was there to build a light car, right up to the point they started bolting stuff to it!!
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the figures available will show you that the 159 was the same weight as the 3-series, passat and A4 back then, and lighter than the c-class
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Originally Posted by David C View Post
There wasn't that much weight reduction from 2008.
Just a tiny amount plus lots of hot air from the marketing dept!

The 159 is a heavy car, but according to ePER the shell itself is actually lighter than a 156, so the potential was there to build a light car, right up to the point they started bolting stuff to it!!
I know the 159 a slightly bigger car than the 156 but if the shell is 15% lighter then they must have worked really hard to make the car 10-15% heavier (1430 to 1680kg vs 1230 to 1530 according to wikipedia so it must be true)
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According to Parkers, my 2006 2.2 JTS Lusso saloon weighs 1445 kgs, but do FIAT-Alfa quote the proper EU definition of 'kerbweight' as in dry weight + 75 kgs for driver + 90% tank of fuel?

I'd like to know as I want to work my 85% caravan match from that figure as I'm downsizing my van, no jokes about Italian petrol saloons towing white Wendy houses around the place hey, this car was bought never to hold anyone up again
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Originally Posted by Joomoo View Post
how can it justify to be that heavy compared to a bmw 3 or an a4?
mine has the 1.9 8v not that much extras and the weight is messured 1650kg!!!! ( 40 kg fuel)
on a truck scale...imagine if i had electric seats, sunroof, folding mirrors, 18´s with 235 tires and so on... brembos bigger disks, roof rails,
more them 1610kg with no dpf and no spare tire, and almost no extras and 16´´ wheels...
there must be a sand bag somewhere...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1878 View Post
I know the 159 a slightly bigger car than the 156 but if the shell is 15% lighter then they must have worked really hard to make the car 10-15% heavier (1430 to 1680kg vs 1230 to 1530 according to wikipedia so it must be true)
I think it is more that they worked very hard to make the 156 light.

The 159 has a lot of extra kit over and above that of the 156, combine that with less effort to keep the weight down resulted in a heavier car.
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Originally Posted by ACAPULCO AL View Post
the figures available will show you that the 159 was the same weight as the 3-series, passat and A4 back then, and lighter than the c-class
....and then JooMoo's actual measurement above shows Alfa's figures to be complete baloney
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I know it's a Brera 2.4jtd but it should be fairly close to the 159. Here's a pic of my car on the scales with a full tank of diesel.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...d-p1020852.jpg

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I know it's a Brera 2.4jtd but it should be fairly close to the 159. Here's a pic of my car on the scales with a full tank of diesel.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...d-p1020852.jpg

Is that with the Ultralegerras fitted ?
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Originally Posted by phil-gtv6 View Post
....and then JooMoo's actual measurement above shows Alfa's figures to be complete baloney
given the complete borrocks the germans quote for their mpg figures, i'd say their kerb weight figures will be even more optimistic than alfa's
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In last two MOT's my 1630kg 2.4 have had, it's been weighed as 1753 and 1767kg. Not sure if that was with driver onboard.
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Originally Posted by ACAPULCO AL View Post
given the complete borrocks the germans quote for their mpg figures, i'd say their kerb weight figures will be even more optimistic than alfa's
From what I've seen BMW are reasonably accurate, Audi similar to Alfa and Mercedes not so accurate

Some interesting figures from the hot hatch group test in last month's evo:

Car / Quoted / Actual / Variance

Fiesta ST / 1088 / 1193 / +105
Clio RS / 1204 / 1294 / +90
208 GTI / 1160 / 1210 / +50
Juke Nismo / 1306 / 1287 / -19
Mini JCW / 1205 / 1228 / +23

That Clio is fat !
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Is that with the Ultralegerras fitted ?
Yes, that was with my old Ultraleggeras (not HLT) and Sessanta tyres. If I remember correctly the original 18" Alfa 8C-style wheels were 5kg extra...each.

The car is a bit lighter now and I never put a full tank of fuel in either...

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159 has thicker glass, much heavier seats, sub-frames and suspension components over the 156, before you start adding in the bigger climate control unit and the much heavier wheels.

156 had magnesium alloy seat sub frames and dash supports............
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Having had a curticy car / 156 when my mot was being sorted and poly bushes etc , I thought it drove like an old van , not at all impressed so was VERY pleased to get back into my 159ti , feels luxurious aqfter the 156 --- lighter or not .
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BMW drivers also complain that the E9X 3 series is heavier than the E46 3 series... both Alfa and BMW added a lot more equipment and refinement from the previous generation.

The real problem with the 159/Brera/Spider was the poor drag coefficient and lareg frontal area leading to big drag losses compare to the competition. But that comes with great looks
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no point in buying a racing car for the public highway, I'd rather have my nice comfy 159 and waft along in comfort as you take a 156 and sling it around some bends you're likely to end up in prison.

The 156 is a better car to drive, its more alive, more nimble and faster to respond but the 159 isn't bad.

I understand Alfa's approach with the 159 and I'd rather go for comfort and spec as well. It doesn't matter how sporty your car is if you're sat in a traffic jam on the M1 / M25!
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no point in buying a racing car for the public highway, I'd rather have my nice comfy 159 and waft along in comfort as you take a 156 and sling it around some bends you're likely to end up in prison.
someone better handcuff me then lol.

You dont have to drive like a knob you can just look forward to going around roundabouts normally. Used to dread roundabouts in my old Wafty Saab 95.

also on the motorway you know the 156 can quickly steer round obstacles if neccessary without rolling over
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my old 156 was definitely nimbler than my 159, and had much quicker steering which i liked. it was much more fun to drive hard on some twisties. having said that, the 159 has a LOT more grip, and feels much more planted at higher speeds. it also has a much better suspension set-up than the 156. funny though how things feel. on paper my 156 was similar weight to mrs al's focus (give or take a few kg's), but the focus always felt a hell of a lot lighter
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From Wiki ... Alfa Romeo 159 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"For model year 2008 the mechanics and interiors of the 159 were further developed. The 3.2 litre V6 model is offered in front wheel drive configuration, achieving a top speed of 250 kilometres per hour (160 mph). All model variants are equipped with Alfa's electronic "Q2" limited slip differential. As a result of newly introduced aluminium components, a 45 kilograms (99 lb) weight reduction has been achieved. Recent model versions were introduced in Geneva Motor Show in 2008.[7]"
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because the e60 bmw in a very well designed car, there is little in front of the driver that is not alloy/composite, it has been cleverly designed for a 50/50 (or near enough) weight distribution.

Very good aerodynamics make it an exceptionally stable car on its 155mph limit also.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderfish View Post
BMW drivers also complain that the E9X 3 series is heavier than the E46 3 series... both Alfa and BMW added a lot more equipment and refinement from the previous generation.

The real problem with the 159/Brera/Spider was the poor drag coefficient and lareg frontal area leading to big drag losses compare to the competition. But that comes with great looks
I'd never looked at the drag coefficient before. I noticed the deflectors ahead of the front wheel arch, knew it would have an engine under tray and because a lot of new cars have this legislated high bonnet line and almost upright front I assumed the drag figure wouldn't be far off competitors cars. How wrong I was. Even my old 407 was better with that gaping grille. As for the weight. I couldn't believe the bonnet and I believe wings are metal. Both my previous French cars had a plastic type bonnet and the Laguna plastic front wings which could must have saved a quite a few kilos. Still as you say great looks so it is a small price to pay.
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