159 dead! - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

159 dead!

Hi guys
It's sad that the first post back on the forum after a few years is the possibility of scrapping my 159ti but... Has anybody found a relatively inexpensive way of fixing the renouned "security protection system not enabled" issue
Car very dead.. No lights on dash except for the error.. Locks, windows, radio etc work.. But no ignition lights therefore no diagnostics,! Not going to throw money at it and thinking it might be worth more for parts?
Any thoughts or solutions?
Ps tried a used steering lock ecu but obviously not coded to car,.
ma1co1m is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #2 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
County: -
Posts: 68
Does it do anything when you press the Start button? Without clutch or brake pedal pressed..
tydytek is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

It's an auto.. No lights just the alarm
eddy b likes this.
ma1co1m is online now  
(Post Link) post #4 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Should I buy a second hand kit with all the ecus etc
ma1co1m is online now  
(Post Link) post #5 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
County: -
Posts: 58

Member car:

159 3.2 JTS SW

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma1co1m View Post
Should I buy a second hand kit with all the ecus etc
I assume you are talking about ¨Vehicle protection system not available"... Before scrapping the car, did you try to replace the battery?
Or simply remove the tag key and start again?
ivo_red is offline  
(Post Link) post #6 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Battery was checked by AA plus plugged into a booster, key batteries were changed.. What do you mean by tag key..?
Steering lock is just clicking
ma1co1m is online now  
(Post Link) post #7 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago
Status: Meh....
AO Platinum Member
 
Verbout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 12,325
Garage

Member car:

Lexus

I think I'd get the opinion of an Alfa or electronic specialist before scrapping a car with such a basic fault.
Verbout is online now  
(Post Link) post #8 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Scrapping will always be a "possibility" with Italian workmanship! Not really a minor issue when all is dead and no way of using diagnostics... Sadly car values are low but items like Ti wheels and interior are worth something to the alfaholics.
I have ordered ecus, key reader, keys and body computer etc and hopefully when it arrives car will spring back to life.??
For now I have a decorative drive ornament.
ma1co1m is online now  
(Post Link) post #9 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
County: -
Posts: 58

Member car:

159 3.2 JTS SW

Quote:
Originally Posted by ma1co1m View Post
Battery was checked by AA plus plugged into a booster, key batteries were changed.. What do you mean by tag key..?
Steering lock is just clicking
This is an electrical issue IMHO, not a key reader problem. Check all the main fuses and relays.

Last edited by ivo_red; 1 Week Ago at 19:51.
ivo_red is offline  
Status: Quo!
AO Silver Member
 
alfaitalia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 2,679
"Vehicle protection system" is usually just the electronic steering lock. It wont let you do anything (inc starting it for obvious reasons) without it releasing....could just be jammed and need fixing or replacing there is a long thread about fixing it on here somewhere.
epsonix likes this.
alfaitalia is online now  
Status: Petrol head
AO Platinum Member
 
cue2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 31,405
And all because they moved the ignition key from where it would injure the drivers leg in a crash.
cue2 is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
napastar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 248
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaitalia View Post
"Vehicle protection system" is usually just the electronic steering lock. It wont let you do anything (inc starting it for obvious reasons) without it releasing....could just be jammed and need fixing or replacing there is a long thread about fixing it on here somewhere.
Alfaitalia is spot on. I had the exact same problem about 3 weeks ago and tried all sorts - using both key fobs, new battery in the key fob, checked fuses, charged the car's battery - nothing worked . Eventually I found out that the problem was because my wife had left the front wheels pointing towards the middle of the road ie not straight ahead. This had left the car trying to centre the wheels before she turned the engine off which in turn had put too much pressure on the steering lock for it to release when the key fob was inserted. Before putting the fob in the dash, try taking some of the pressure off the steering lock by pulling and holding the steering wheel towards centre. When I did this the steering lock released when I put the key in and everything burst into life.

Fingers crossed this is the same for you
Verbout likes this.
napastar is offline  
(Post Link) post #13 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Steering lock is removed from column now so no pressure on it.. Still no joy or with a other one connected
ma1co1m is online now  
Status: Meh....
AO Platinum Member
 
Verbout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 12,325
Garage

Member car:

Lexus

My son did a similar thing with his Punto many years ago.

He was a new driver, didn’t know about steering locks and bent the ignition key.

The steering had locked when the wheels were jammed against the kerb.
Verbout is online now  
(Post Link) post #15 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

I am surprised with this being such a common problem that nobody has. Come up with a definitive answer or repair yet? Hopefully changing ecus, keys, key reader, body computer etc.. Will be it? Not sure if I will need to change the door barrel as will still have old key blades? Time will tell I suppose?
ma1co1m is online now  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
amfalconer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Posts: 2,646

Member car:

159ti 2.4JTDm

Just a note, these cars are susceptible to low voltage and poor earth connections.

If you've checked battery voltage, fuses etc, you could check main connections into fuse box, and all other affected control units

I'd be checking the basics, specifically earth connections before looking at replacing anything.

If you just swap the existing key part to your new keys, no need to change any of the locks if I recall.

Hope its something basic like that!
ivo_red likes this.
amfalconer is offline  
Status: Why is the rum gone?
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater Manchester
Posts: 694

Member car:

159 2.0JTDm SW

Had a very similar issue a few years ago on my last saloon and also had it on my current SW.
Both times diagnosed by a very helpful RAC man and both times detailed on here.

this may or may not be the fix but for me the earth strap (or was it the live?) to the fuse box on top of the battery both times was the culprit.

remove the earths and lives, clean, reconnect.

sorted my issues.

Symptoms were key in, dash lights work, press start button, nothing, dash lights go out, sometimes get a warning about key not recognised (when key was put in)

bad contacts are where I would look first.

(but if your going to scrap it then let me know how much you want for the interior :-) )


Regards,
Axe
FiremanAxe is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 41 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

I am waiting on parts and will hopefully find a cure.... BUT,, If it is terminal i am sure a lovely Ti interior and some almost perfect 19" alloys will go someway to help although I would rather the whole car went... Watch this space I will write up the process if ecu kit works??!
ma1co1m is online now  
(Post Link) post #19 of 41 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Still waiting on parts but in the meantime was trying to look at prices for wheels, interiors, engine/gearbox etc but don't seem to be able to find the "parts for sale" section? Any tips?
ma1co1m is online now  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
amfalconer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Posts: 2,646

Member car:

159ti 2.4JTDm

There you go... https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/clas...at.php/cat/106 but best check for sold prices on eBay.

I'm hoping you'll get it fixed rather than resorting to breaking it.
amfalconer is offline  
(Post Link) post #21 of 41 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Thanks
Did find it but it seems an odd layout! Maybe it's my phone settings?
Hoping parts will arrive tomorrow and work..
Lots of Google listings about the issue but nobody seems to ever confirm the fix? And if a "brain transplant" is the answer?
ma1co1m is online now  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
amfalconer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Posts: 2,646

Member car:

159ti 2.4JTDm

The mobile version of the site is ok for checking posts, you'll always be better off using the proper site.

The 'brain transplant' could potentially solve your issue, but there's not many instances of this being a faulty part, hence why you can't find anything.

I'm sure you've seen the responses, but have you gone through all the electronic connections, fuses, shut-off devices and most importantly, the earths already? only asking as you haven't confirmed - there was a chap who gambled on a non-runner here which had been given up on, turned up with a new earth strap to the gearbox and drove it away having bought it for scrap value - can't find the post I'm afraid. Temporarily connect a jump lead (if you have) from the negative terminal to a bare metal part on the engine, see if that has any effect.
Simmouk likes this.

Posting from my phone - excuse spelling mistakes
amfalconer is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 41 Old 6 Days Ago Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
ma1co1m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 101

Member car:

159 2.4 Qtronic

Yep,
Cleaned up all earth leads I can find and unplugged cleaned and plugged all connector blocks etc.., Door locks.. Windows.. Radio all work, but no ignition lights? And just get "vehicle protection system not available" alarm?
Loads of listings for this on Google and other forums but no definitive answer?
amfalconer likes this.
ma1co1m is online now  
Status: Quo!
AO Silver Member
 
alfaitalia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Sussex
Posts: 2,679
As said before "vehicle protection system" is not alarm...it's steering lock.
alfaitalia is online now  
Status: -
AO Member
 
epsonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Poland
County: Bielsko-Biala
Posts: 671
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma1co1m View Post
Yep,
Cleaned up all earth leads I can find and unplugged cleaned and plugged all connector blocks etc.., Door locks.. Windows.. Radio all work, but no ignition lights? And just get "vehicle protection system not available" alarm?
Loads of listings for this on Google and other forums but no definitive answer?
I had very similar problem in my 159 jtdm. no diagnostics possible etc. fault is is steering lock. problem in my case was that it was not turning enough (overused cog wheels they are plastic). there are 2 microswitches inside (on small PCB plugged into main PCB) one is open one is closed in one position of lock and opposite for other. in my unlucky case, it was basically "reporting" not unlocked state, so didn;t give out necessary signals to allow kick of other supplies and so all seemed like dead. most of cars has issue in oppostite state so they only report fault but ignition works OK.

What I did as very temporary fix was I opened the steering lock mechanism, removed the lock and cog wheels, shorted one of microswitches (don;t ask me which one, can;t remember, but you can figure out based on work on cog wheel which shoudl be pressed), and then car ignition started to work, just at ignition off was reporting vehicle proteciton not available (As expected, since microwitches were forced to report unlocked state).
after a few days I got brand new steering lock module. I was not sure if that does not need to be coded-paired togeteher with immobiliser/keys, so suspecting old lock electronics OK, I swapped my old motherboard to new unit.
One note here, sometime in 2006 they changed polarity of connecotr for electric motor inside this unit. I got new unit with reversed polarity, so I had to swap wires within connector of new motor to match old PCB polarity.

FYI, I was lucky to buy brand new steering lock mechanism for only like EUR30 (stock clearance, it was old part number (actually the same as my 2005 car's but internally had inversed motor connection as mentioend earlier), replaced many times with newer part numbers), but even in dealers brand new/latest rev cost liek EUR250 as far as I know.

DO NOT SCRAP YOUR TI!!! just get repaired this small failure.
alfizta likes this.
epsonix is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 159, Brera & 946 Spider

Tags
159 , dead

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome