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(Post Link) post #1 of 30 Old 03-09-19 Thread Starter
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2.0 Diesel - hard start & EGR errors

So I'm working on a 2010 Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 CDTi, I know it's not an Alfa but I'm on this forum anyway and it's pretty much the same engine as the 2.0 JTDM, so I hope you don't mind me asking here. The VX forums are very quiet unfortunately.

I bought the car for a 500 with a snapped cambelt. The car is on 140k miles. Since then I have replaced the head with a reconditioned one + head gasket + new rockers.

The car now starts, runs smoothly and sits at 90C no problem, so I'm glad the head & gasket appear to be fitted correctly and holding (I'm new to all this, done suspension/brake work on the drive before but never anything like this).

There are still a couple of issues though, that I believe are separate to the head replacement:

1 - The car is hard to start, from cold it takes a good 5 seconds of cranking to start. Once turned on, the second start is pretty quick, but maybe cranks 1 time more than normal. Not sure what could cause this - I had heard of a fuel pump regulator going bad?

2 - EGR fault codes - The codes are P0403 - EGR control circuit & EGR sensor A Circuit Low. I plan on removing the EGR and cleaning it properly, as this has not been done yet. Could this tie into the above hard starting issue? Or would this more likely be a wiring fault going to the EGR?

Does anyone have any ideas on what to do to fix this/what is causing this? Hoping I can get the car running perfectly without spending to much more.

Thank you.
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I doubt the EGR will cause it....just for fun (and i like to know what would happen!) I started the car without the EGR in place at all....made a strange sound but started instantly. Fuel rail pressure is always a reason for these things not to start. On a diesel all you need is fuel being injected for them to run....nothing else...they have no throttle so air quantity is not important. So maybe the pump is not getting to full pressure fast enough (not likely IMO) or the pressure reg (end of fuel rail is faulty) still unusual IMO...more likely is excessive leak back from a worn or damaged injector. i had this on another car. Took a while to build pressure due to leaking injector....eventually it would not start at all. The ECU on these will not allow the injectors to fire without a preset minimum fuel rail pressure being achieved...to protect the injectors/engine. Obviously all guess work without seeing the car ...but it might give you somewhere to start.
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EGR sticking open would cause starting issues.
Since there are some EGR related errors in ECU i would start with cleaning the EGR, that is never a bad thing to do.
BTW starting without EGR in place will cause just more fresh air in the intake. EGR sticking open would do just the oposite.
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And one more thing - i have read on polish forum that fuel pressure sensor sometimes causes issues on these engines.
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Thank you both for the helpful info.

I've run a compression test on all cylinders and they are all good at 300 PSI+, which makes me think air is not escaping past the injectors - is this correct? I re-cut the seats prior to reinstalling the injectors, and used new washers.

Is it possible to test the fuel pump pressure at home? I'm trying to avoid a mechanic if possible as I can't afford it right now.

Tydytek - thanks I'll pull the EGR off tonight and give it a clean. The pipe that goes into the intake was ridiculously clogged up with Carbon, so I imagine the EGR is very similar.

Do you know which one the fuel pressure sensor is? If it's the one on the back of the fuel pump (furthest away from the cog side) then I'd heard this could go bad too, and you can test it with boiling water or something like that? If so would this mean my fuel system is not priming quick enough, which is why the engine has to crank so many times before firing?

Thanks again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tydytek View Post
EGR sticking open would cause starting issues.
Since there are some EGR related errors in ECU i would start with cleaning the EGR, that is never a bad thing to do.
BTW starting without EGR in place will cause just more fresh air in the intake. EGR sticking open would do just the oposite.
Neither of which will affect starting as there will be no exhaust fumes to go through the EGR until AFTER the engine has fired up! There is no throttle on JTDm so there is always far more air than required. Can affect things when actually running through.

Last edited by alfaitalia; 03-09-19 at 14:14.
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Thank you both for the helpful info.

Do you know which one the fuel pressure sensor is? If it's the one on the back of the fuel pump (furthest away from the cog side) then I'd heard this could go bad too, and you can test it with boiling water or something like that? If so would this mean my fuel system is not priming quick enough, which is why the engine has to crank so many times before firing?

Thanks again.
It is on the left side of the rail, see attached image, number 15.
No idea how to test it, sorry.
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Neither of which will affect starting as there will be no exhaust fumes to go through the EGR until AFTER the engine has fired up! There is no throttle on JTDm so there is always far more air than required. Can affect things when actually running through.
That's annoying - I was hoping that the EGR could be the sole cause. The car runs very nicely once it's started!
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It is on the left side of the rail, see attached image, number 15.
No idea how to test it, sorry.
Thanks for the link, I know exactly what you mean now. I'll have to have a look to see if there's any cheap diagnostic equipment that can read values from it.
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(Post Link) post #10 of 30 Old 03-09-19 Thread Starter
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Well EGR is sorted - I hadn't plugged it back in! Car started fairly quickly today as well after an hour driving it yesterday. Still not quite there but it's definitely an improvement. There may also be some dodgy engine noises though
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Not sure what GM did with their version of this engine but it seems to have a lot more issues than the Fiat one.

My Cousin has a 2.0 Diesel Insignia and has loads of problems with it. I think it has needed a complete engine rebuild.
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Not sure what GM did with their version of this engine but it seems to have a lot more issues than the Fiat one.

My Cousin has a 2.0 Diesel Insignia and has loads of problems with it. I think it has needed a complete engine rebuild.

I would be interested to know exactly what the differences are. Since most of the parts are interchangeable my guess would be not much. They're are always bad ones...there are many more Vauxhalls using the engine than Alfa ...so there will be more issues I guess. Generally they seem to be pretty good....a million Insignia driving salesman can't all be wrong!
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(Post Link) post #13 of 30 Old 04-09-19 Thread Starter
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Does anyone mind watching these clips and telling me if this starting is normal?

Cold Start: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13a..._laAtf0ep_vm2O

Hot Start: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13V...pqxrI0lDmEha9c

If not normal - what else can I check? Thanks for the advice so far.
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Not great, not terrible
What was the outside temperature?
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Lol that's given me a lot of confidence!

It's about 15-20C at the moment, so the car shouldn't have any troubles starting.
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Cold start seemed at bit slow....compared to mine. Hot start seemed ok. Mine starts the same hot or cold. Two things struck me. Firstly the engine was not turning over as fast as mine does on the starter motor (I'm led to believe that there is a minimum cranking speed on these before they will fire?). Is your battery and battery wiring ok....how old is battery? Secondly it sounded a lot more...erm diesel like than mine!...especially on the hot start where mine is virtually absent in diesel clatter. Good luck sorting it.
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I would recommend to clean MAP sensor. It will be clogged like crap. It have HUGE role in starting. Try to unplug MAP sensor and start the car. ALso it's a good idea to reset ecu learned stuff, maybe ecu accounts for something (that is already fixed) and makes starting worse.

PS your Opel starts faster then my alfa 156 2.4 that i never thought that it starts badly

Last edited by tommix; 05-09-19 at 01:50.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewanfrance27 View Post
Does anyone mind watching these clips and telling me if this starting is normal?

Cold Start: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13a..._laAtf0ep_vm2O

Hot Start: https://drive.google.com/open?id=13V...pqxrI0lDmEha9c

If not normal - what else can I check? Thanks for the advice so far.
Mine has the same thump when it starts from cold but cranks a bit quicker, warm start about the same.

For a non mechanic where is the MAP Sensor and is it easy to remove?
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(Post Link) post #19 of 30 Old 06-09-19 Thread Starter
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Cold start seemed at bit slow....compared to mine. Hot start seemed ok. Mine starts the same hot or cold. Two things struck me. Firstly the engine was not turning over as fast as mine does on the starter motor (I'm led to believe that there is a minimum cranking speed on these before they will fire?). Is your battery and battery wiring ok....how old is battery? Secondly it sounded a lot more...erm diesel like than mine!...especially on the hot start where mine is virtually absent in diesel clatter. Good luck sorting it.
Yeah cold isn't great - battery is good. I had the car sat for 6 weeks and it barely dropped, plus I charged it up with my C-Tek charger overnight before starting it.

But yeah it is a bit clattery, I know the timing is perfect so no valve hitting noises, but it does seem to make some odd noises. Just noisy injectors or something else?

Tommix - thanks for the tip, I'll have a look into that tonight!
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Originally Posted by tommix View Post
I would recommend to clean MAP sensor. It will be clogged like crap. It have HUGE role in starting. Try to unplug MAP sensor and start the car. ALso it's a good idea to reset ecu learned stuff, maybe ecu accounts for something (that is already fixed) and makes starting worse.

PS your Opel starts faster then my alfa 156 2.4 that i never thought that it starts badly
I dont really think MAP has any role in starting since there is no boost when starting the engine. But i recommend cleaning it anyway
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I dont really think MAP has any role in starting since there is no boost when starting the engine. But i recommend cleaning it anyway

Then i have to disappoint you - but it have Once i took MAP sensor to clean. Cleaned it put it back and so on. Starting the car -it wont start...shakes like crazy..looks like gonna blow... tried 5 times - did not start.
Looked at errors - no errors. I did erase of learnt stuff (via multiecuscan) - did not help.
Then i just disconnected plug from MAP sensor and tried to start the car - it worked! I reconnected it then. Started again, bit ruff but started. And after 3rd try it was back to normal.
So if that wast MAP sensor - then what else? MAP also provides temperature data, not only pressure, maybe tat have some influence.
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I don't think the MAP does provide temp info.....but I think the MAF does....not getting these confused ?.or I may be wrong...should not be posting at 1 in the morning so anything's possible. Night!
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In MES i can see these:
Air temperature (MAF)
Air temperature (Boost/Manifold)

I dont know about any separate temp sensor on the manifold so it must be MAP providing that information.
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I guess so...live and learn. From memory the MAP has four (?) wires in it's plug..so certainly possible.
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I guess so...live and learn. From memory the MAP has four (?) wires in it's plug..so certainly possible.
When im posting i do post at 4am Anyway yeah it's strange that MAP have temp sensor, but i saw in MES that manifold temp is shown, so it must be map, also when i cleaned it i saw that it looks like MAF had sensors in middle that doesn't belong to MAP, also as you said it have 4 wires. so 2 'data' lines at least. Anyway best was EURO 3 cars. the newer the car the ****tier it is.
New ones wont last 100 000km.
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