alfa 159 air conditioner problem - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 21 Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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alfa 159 air conditioner problem

Hello guys,

I have problem with air conditioner on alfa 159.
Air conditioner works up to two weeks, after two weeks gas disappears from the system. I was check with UV light and I found gas leakage on pipe connection to the compressor.
I was replace sealing gaskets (original), but this was not help, I was replace sealing gasket again, I clean surface and also put some grease on sealing gasket. but this is still not help.





has anyone had the same problem? maybe I need to replace the hose or compressor?

Best regards,
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(Post Link) post #2 of 21 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by defi View Post
Hello guys,

I have problem with air conditioner on alfa 159.
Air conditioner works up to two weeks, after two weeks gas disappears from the system. I was check with UV light and I found gas leakage on pipe connection to the compressor.
I was replace sealing gaskets (original), but this was not help, I was replace sealing gasket again, I clean surface and also put some grease on sealing gasket. but this is still not help.





has anyone had the same problem? maybe I need to replace the hose or compressor?

Best regards,
Do you have some pics of the leak? Sometimes the drip/spray pattern can give some insight of what kind of leak you have.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 21 Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Do you have some pics of the leak? Sometimes the drip/spray pattern can give some insight of what kind of leak you have.
yes I have, here you can see oil which is in gas for UV colour around hose connection to compressor:



Best regards,
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(Post Link) post #4 of 21 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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seems like its only the high pressure line is leaking. I assume you torqued the connector to the right value?
You replaced the Orings? is there any damage to the new one after mounting it? If there is still a gap after fitting the connector sometimes the rubber gets squeesed in there.
Can you also check the hose side? AFAIK both the hoses are bolted on with only one bolt. Sometimes the hose "block" is a little bent and thus it will not seal correctlym Check for flatness on "block".
Bending can be caused by over torquing (I believe it's all just alu) or incorrect fitting.

Did you compare the new and old seals? see any damage?
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(Post Link) post #5 of 21 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kid1988 View Post
seems like its only the high pressure line is leaking. I assume you torqued the connector to the right value?
You replaced the Orings? is there any damage to the new one after mounting it? If there is still a gap after fitting the connector sometimes the rubber gets squeesed in there.
Can you also check the hose side? AFAIK both the hoses are bolted on with only one bolt. Sometimes the hose "block" is a little bent and thus it will not seal correctlym Check for flatness on "block".
Bending can be caused by over torquing (I believe it's all just alu) or incorrect fitting.

Did you compare the new and old seals? see any damage?
Thank you for explanation.

Last year AC works perfect, but during winter gas goes out of the system. I went to mechanic and refill gas in system with UV coloured oil. After one week gas goes out of AC system, after investigation we see lacking on this hose connection ‘’block’’

Here is original seal gasket from high pressure hose, there is some rubber damage but this can be damaged during removal and assembly of connection hose.



I ordered new seal gaskets and replace them, we refill system again and after two weeks pressure goes out of the system on same place.
With mechanics we start investigation why is this lacking. We remove hose connection box we clean surface and assembly hose box again. After this we checked system with nitrogen. We filed up to 12 bar and after half an hour pressure falls below 10 bar on both hoses low and high pressure:



On this seal gasket I see some rubber damage, but I’m not sure when this damage was happen. Maybe this can be damaged during several removal and assembly inspections:



I ordered new seal gaskets and replace them, before replacing we again clean surface in lubricate seal gaskets with UV coloured oil, we assembly hose connection box and try again with nitrogen. We filed system up to 12 bar. After half an hour pressure falls to 11 bar on high pressure hose, on low pressure hose pressure stays on 12 bar.

It seem that system leaks again on same place, we refill system with gas and UV oil. Now AC work seven days but I’m not sure if AC will works further.

I see in E-learn that screw on hose connection box need to be tighten between 1,8 and 2,2 Nm of torque. This is quite small vale is this value proper?
How can be rubber damaged if we lubricate rubber with oil and washer catch the gap between hose connection box and compressor?

Here is picture from the bottom after one week, AC still works but high pressure hose connection still leaking...



I still don’t have other idea why gas is leaking on this place except that something is wrong with hose connection block.

I will ordered new AC hose and seal gasket, maybe this hose connection block is bended?

best regards
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(Post Link) post #6 of 21 Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Low torque is absolutely fine if there are O-rings used.
Rubbers can be damaged due to too high torque, and like I mentioned before, over-torque could also have damaged the "connection block"
Check it's flatness. Since it is leaking on the outside edge, I think the gap is not even, and on the outside the rubber seal cannot fill the gap.

Bending of the connection block may have been caused by over-torque. I think it's aluminium?
Check the flatness of the mating surface. You can try and bend it back a bit, since you have ordered a new one anyway.
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Low torque is absolutely fine if there are O-rings used.
Rubbers can be damaged due to too high torque, and like I mentioned before, over-torque could also have damaged the "connection block"
Check it's flatness. Since it is leaking on the outside edge, I think the gap is not even, and on the outside the rubber seal cannot fill the gap.

Bending of the connection block may have been caused by over-torque. I think it's aluminium?
Check the flatness of the mating surface. You can try and bend it back a bit, since you have ordered a new one anyway.
Yes all material is aluminium, this is strange because this happen during winter time, but I have this car for one year and I'm not know if AC was working proper before I was buy this car.

First time when I was change this seals gasket I over-torqued screw, because I was thinking that problem of leaking was in lower torque. Whit this thinking maybe I additional damaged ''connection block''

I already ordered new OEM AC hose and seal gaskets. I will come back with results when I will replace it and try system pressure with nitrogen.

Best regards
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Originally Posted by defi View Post
Yes all material is aluminium, this is strange because this happen during winter time, but I have this car for one year and I'm not know if AC was working proper before I was buy this car.

First time when I was change this seals gasket I over-torqued screw, because I was thinking that problem of leaking was in lower torque. Whit this thinking maybe I additional damaged ''connection block''

I already ordered new OEM AC hose and seal gaskets. I will come back with results when I will replace it and try system pressure with nitrogen.

Best regards
Might have been damaged due to freezing. Damaged the seals, and damaged the mating surface when refitting the seals.
Not sure if there is corrosion on the old washer, or other damage/grime. Water in the AC system is not good. If there has moisture in there, maybe aso consider replacing the receiver-dryer.
When you fix the leak, do a proper vacuum check.

Be sure to vacuum the system and close the valves, to see if the system maintains vacuum. If the vacuum is not maintained you will still have a leak that needs fixing.
If it does remain vacuum, keep it at a vacuum for about 30 minutes. This boils off all the remaining moisture in the system before re-filling the system.
Fill it back up with the specified lubricants and cooling agent.

Good luck!
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(Post Link) post #9 of 21 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Might have been damaged due to freezing. Damaged the seals, and damaged the mating surface when refitting the seals.
Not sure if there is corrosion on the old washer, or other damage/grime. Water in the AC system is not good. If there has moisture in there, maybe aso consider replacing the receiver-dryer.
When you fix the leak, do a proper vacuum check.

Be sure to vacuum the system and close the valves, to see if the system maintains vacuum. If the vacuum is not maintained you will still have a leak that needs fixing.
If it does remain vacuum, keep it at a vacuum for about 30 minutes. This boils off all the remaining moisture in the system before re-filling the system.
Fill it back up with the specified lubricants and cooling agent.

Good luck!
Thank you for information, I ordered also receiver-dryer . I still waiting original AC hose.

Meanwhile I look in E-learn again and now I see that this screw need to be tighten around 2daNm this not mean 2Nm but 20Nm so this is much more tighten that I think before:



so I think that leaks hose connection box some where, I will check when I remove current hose.

Best regards
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I get ordered original AC hose. On hose are included all sealing gaskets:





I change AC hose and also receiver-dryer, old one was in bad condition:



For now AC conditioner now works with just for test refiled 300g of gas.

It looks like that on old AC hose was leaking ''connection box'' :





Best regards
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Great!

First of all, thanks so much for reporting back with your solution! this can be of help for others who have similar issues
Second, did you maintain a vacuum on the system for a while before refilling it? This helps evaporating all the water in the system to prevent all your shiny new parts from corroding again.
Third, don't run it too long with low volume gas and lubricant, it should disable the pump when the pressure drops below a certain threshold, but it kills the pumps to run them without lubricant (the pump will seize and the clutch will burn up, best case. It will take the aux belt with it worst case).

Fourth, Enjoy cool driving!
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Just 300 grams seems too low to me.

Following is about what I found out last year;
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...ng-amount.html (Correct A/C refilling amount (?!))
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Just 300 grams seems too low to me.

Following is about what I found out last year;
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...ng-amount.html (Correct A/C refilling amount (?!))
Confirm, refilled it just a few weeks ago, total capacity is 460grams
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Originally Posted by kid1988 View Post
Great!

First of all, thanks so much for reporting back with your solution! this can be of help for others who have similar issues
Second, did you maintain a vacuum on the system for a while before refilling it? This helps evaporating all the water in the system to prevent all your shiny new parts from corroding again.
Third, don't run it too long with low volume gas and lubricant, it should disable the pump when the pressure drops below a certain threshold, but it kills the pumps to run them without lubricant (the pump will seize and the clutch will burn up, best case. It will take the aux belt with it worst case).

Fourth, Enjoy cool driving!
Dear, yes with mechanic we did maintain a vacuum and wait for one hour and vacuum stay as on beginning. After this we refill gas with 300g in system, just to see if AC works. For now works one week and I will wait a few more days. If AC will works I will refill it with 460g of gas + coloured UV oil.
Before when I was change sealing gaskets and refiled wit 460g of gas, AC works for one week, after one week I get error low AC pressure.

Main thing with this sealing gaskets is that before installation sealing gaskets needs to be lubricated with oil. This action will prevent rubber damage during squeezing/torquing screws.

Best regards
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Dear, yes with mechanic we did maintain a vacuum and wait for one hour and vacuum stay as on beginning. After this we refill gas with 300g in system, just to see if AC works. For now works one week and I will wait a few more days. If AC will works I will refill it with 460g of gas + coloured UV oil.
Before when I was change sealing gaskets and refiled wit 460g of gas, AC works for one week, after one week I get error low AC pressure.

Main thing with this sealing gaskets is that before installation sealing gaskets needs to be lubricated with oil. This action will prevent rubber damage during squeezing/torquing screws.

Best regards
I think if it maintains a vacuum for 1 hour you're golden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_NL View Post
Just 300 grams seems too low to me.

Following is about what I found out last year;
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...ng-amount.html (Correct A/C refilling amount (?!))
it is, in mine they have filled it with 550.
icecold for years now.
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I think if it maintains a vacuum for 1 hour you're golden
Maybe I write this not in understandable way

we maintain a vacuum and close valves on connection, at this point we wait one hour to see if vacuum value goes from negative to 0.

Best regards
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Maybe I write this not in understandable way

we maintain a vacuum and close valves on connection, at this point we wait one hour to see if vacuum value goes from negative to 0.

Best regards
and? what did it drop to during the hour?
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and? what did it drop to during the hour?
Dear, no it not drop, pointer/cursor stay on same position. Previous during seal gaskets change we refiled AC with nitrogen gas up to 12 bar, we was close valves and wait. Pressure was drop 2 bars in half of hour.
I'm not sure if this checking is same: vacuum vs pressure?

I measured temperature and I get results: outside temperature seen on dashboard was 24C and measured in air canal was 6C, this I think is quite good.

Best regards
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Dear, no it not drop, pointer/cursor stay on same position. Previous during seal gaskets change we refiled AC with nitrogen gas up to 12 bar, we was close valves and wait. Pressure was drop 2 bars in half of hour.
I'm not sure if this checking is same: vacuum vs pressure?

I measured temperature and I get results: outside temperature seen on dashboard was 24C and measured in air canal was 6C, this I think is quite good.

Best regards
Simple, If you fill with gas, it depends on the gas you use and the temperature what it would drop.

If you use vacuum, it doesn't matter. Vacuum is much more sensitive. Meaning that if you maintain a vacuum for 1 hour, you can be sure that the system is not leaking.
The temps you measured are very good. Make sure you fill it up to the correct amount of gas, and that the system is lubricated properly.
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Simple, If you fill with gas, it depends on the gas you use and the temperature what it would drop.

If you use vacuum, it doesn't matter. Vacuum is much more sensitive. Meaning that if you maintain a vacuum for 1 hour, you can be sure that the system is not leaking.
The temps you measured are very good. Make sure you fill it up to the correct amount of gas, and that the system is lubricated properly.
Dear, thank you for information's, Yes I will refill gas with proper 460g. with much more grams like 500 or 550 there could be problem with higher pressure up to 20 bar in AC system and this can provide more gas leaking.
Today I was check all AC connections and everything is okay and clean, there is no oil or something else presence like previous when I was change just seal gaskets.

best regards
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