Project 159 SW TBi progress thread. Version 2.0 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Project 159 SW TBi progress thread. Version 2.0

In almost a repeat of events last year, we, that's my Father and I, have a new project car. A black 2011 159 sport wagon with a TBi engine.

Which probably sounds familiar given my other thread...

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...ss-thread.html (An Act of madness? - Progress thread)

There are some contrasting elements though, namely this one is broken. Very broken.

It has the later black leather & alcantara interior.

And the buying experience was the total opposite of the experience we had when buying the last one. The Seller was an absolute pleasure to deal with, the car is exactly as described and the other 3rd parities involved so far have been equally painless to deal with.

In essence all is going exactly as planned.

Which is very worrying. Things don't go exactly as planned when we're involved.

Anyway, a deal was struck a couple of weeks ago after we had a look at the car which was at Indie garage, my Dad (I think when it's rebuilt and running, he's going to use it as his daily drive) paid for it and we met up with the Owner last week to sign the paperwork and collect a few bits and pieces.

Lacking the means to collect the (broken) car We asked the garage it was at if they could recommend anyone who could deliver it to our address, which they did.

The car turned up yesterday on the back of a very cool low loader - an 80's GMC (I think) airport Fire truck that had been covered to a low loader by its owner. I think he said it had a 6.8l diesel V8 in it. I was that impressed, I didn't take any pics of it. (Wish I had, it sounded mega too.)

I did take some of the car after it arrived;

IMG_0261 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0262 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0263 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0264 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0266 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0267 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0268 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0272 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0269 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0260-2 by Chris, on Flickr

I'm sure by now it won't have escaped everyone what the problem is - the engine is in bits.

However, the why is an interesting question that lacks a full explanation.

From what I understand, the turbo failed on it. The turbo was replaced. The engine then developed a misfire that became progressively worse. The engine was then stripped to the state you see now.

Cylinder 1;

IMG_0199 by Chris, on Flickr

Cylinder 2;

IMG_0200 by Chris, on Flickr

Cylinder 3;

IMG_0196 by Chris, on Flickr

Cylinder 4:

IMG_0201 by Chris, on Flickr

Spot the problem? It's on 3, which apparently also lacks compression, which is why the head was removed.

IMG_0176-2 by Chris, on Flickr


I think there was also a suggestion (It was difficult to keep track of what has gone on with it) that there is an issue with the head (valves) on 3 as well but, as yet, we've not looked at the head in any detail. That is forthcoming.

We suspect that a chunk of the failed turbo has found its way into the combustion chamber.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 37 Old 13-04-19 Thread Starter
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"What's that in the bubble wrap?" I hear you cry... Well maybe someone questioned it in their mind...

IMG_0260-2 by Chris, on Flickr

It's another engine. Bought from the garage that had the car and on the basis that it wa effectively untested, for spares or repair.

Off to the local tool parts place it was then, for another engine stand...

IMG_0277 by Chris, on Flickr

Whilst we were there, the Postman dropped this off (cam timing tools);

IMG_0276-2 by Chris, on Flickr

I then buggered off, jobs to do, and returned to find the spare engine sat on the new stand;

IMG_0279 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0280 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0286 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0287 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0288 by Chris, on Flickr

Being inclined to procrastinate, I think the next step is to strip the engine and understand how the cam locks work - they didn't come with any instructions.
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Last edited by Chris155; 13-04-19 at 00:45.
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The cam locks are similar to ones for my 1.4ma take vac pump off and plate bolts on there,same with other cam once plate is removed. No idea what the banana shape thing is for though.

Tidy looking car that is though be a stunner once engine is sorted
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How many miles on this one?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyroper View Post
The cam locks are similar to ones for my 1.4ma take vac pump off and plate bolts on there,same with other cam once plate is removed. No idea what the banana shape thing is for though.

Tidy looking car that is though be a stunner once engine is sorted
Think itís for locking the flywheel.

Thanks!
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Cam belt job is nice and easy when you've got the engine out, you'll have no dramas there. The big plates lock the cams, you unscrew the cap in the pulley and slacken the big nut inside (there's oil inside the pulley). Then you fit the cambelt, tension, torque the nuts, remove the locks, spin it around, check the locks all still fit & tension is as it should be. Basically same as a TS or V6.
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Thanks for confirming that Dan.

I have a couple of questions though, the pulleys seem to be free floating like the v6 but they lack a taper lock, or a key, so how the hell do they lock on to the cams? Is it just the torque of the ribe bolt that goes though it?

Also, do you have a torque figure / sequence for the head bolts? Only one I can find is for the 4C and that’s 30n.m then 90+90+90. However and as I’m sure you’re aware, the 4C is different in that it has an alloy block. So I’m concerned that it’s not relevant to the iron block.

Last edited by Chris155; 14-04-19 at 00:31.
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13th April.

We carried on stripping down the new engine;

IMG_0290 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

Which we were pleased to find, looks virtually new;

IMG_0292-2 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0300 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

As does the oil segregator, which looks like it's leaking on mine (the other one) but not here;

IMG_0297 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0298 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

The cam pulleys are an interesting bit of kit. Looks like the variator is built into the pulley and they are filled with oil as a consequence of this design;

To remove them you have to unscrew what is effectively an oil seal;


IMG_0295 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

Which gives access to the retaining screw;

IMG_0294 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

Cam carrier removed (for which there is a bolt removal sequence specified in the 4C workshop manual)

IMG_0304 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0305 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0306 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0307-2 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

Head removed. Still no sign as to why the engine had been removed from the car;

IMG_0308 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0309 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0313 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

There was some "bits" in the cylinder, but no apparent damage as a result of this;

IMG_0310 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
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And possibly some corrosion or signs of an issue here;

IMG_0314 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

And evidence of a coolant leak from the thermostat;

IMG_0315 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
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14th April

Moving on to the bottom half of the engine.

Sump off;

IMG_0317 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0329 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

Again, it looks to be in good order and the lack of oil staining suggests an engine that has done very few miles;

IMG_0318 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0319 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0321 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0322 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0323 by Chris Upton, on Flickr

IMG_0324 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
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Right, now that flickr is back up and running.... Sort of. (Well done chaps, if I was paying for your service I would be properly annoyed by now).

20th April

In the 4C manual it appears that Alfa suggest using a standard, cheap, piston ring compressor tool, one that you wrap around the piston and tighten, to refit the pistons.

I'd suggest anyone attempting this doesn't. The rings are much finer in terms of their thickness and therefore more easily damaged. Unfortunately, the solution is a tapered ring compressor which isn't cheap;

IMG_0391 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0389 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0388 by Chris, on Flickr

New bits had also arrived from germany. Cam kit, thermostat, water pump and head kit;

IMG_0393 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0394 by Chris, on Flickr

The head kit contained head bolt torques which I can confirm differ to those specified in the 4C manual extracts (cast iron block v's alloy in the 4C).

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22nd, 26th & 27th April (I think)

Head strip down started; This is the replacement engine. As of today, the 25th May we've still not looked into the original engine beyond confirming the block is scored and probably scrap.

I think Ive already discussed the condition of it. We think the engine is virtually unused, new. (So why was it removed?)...

The valves were good. The exhaust valves had some carbon deposits;

IMG_0767 by Chris, on Flickr

Which was easily removed;

IMG_0766 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0764 by Chris, on Flickr

One interesting development is the valve stem oil seals. Seems like a better design as it's held in place with the valve spring, so removing them doesn't destroy them. But, as they were included in the head kit, new ones were used...

IMG_0436 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0420 by Chris, on Flickr


The head was skimmed (light skim, no issues) and the valves reground. Again, no problems.

IMG_0779 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0421 by Chris, on Flickr
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2nd May.

With the new engine being rebuilt we needed the old engine out so that we could compare it - the new engine is from a Giulietta and we were expecting there to be some differences. I took some time off work and we pulled the front end of the car apart and craned the engine out.

For those wondering, the air con radiator had been damaged (bent, new one required) and the system was no longer pressurised.

IMG_1621 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0450 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1630 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1634 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0452 by Chris, on Flickr

The problematic GM made M32 gearbox. Fortunately this one has receipts to suggest the bearings have been changed.

IMG_1636 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1635 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1636 by Chris, on Flickr
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As well as a receipt for the bearings there was also one for a clutch and a DMF. However, when we took it apart we found a level of free play in the DMF that we thought to be concerning:


To be clear, I'm not throwing accessions around of parts being charged for and being fitted. There was a date on the DMF that suggested it had been manufactured after the car had been built. The clutch was also obviously new.

But we have very limited experience of DMFs. Having changed only one once before on my brother's 147JTDm about 10 years ago.

I couldn't find any technical information relating to what is acceptable in terms of free play. Nor any helpful youtube videos.

Ultimately we felt we had little choice but to buy a 2nd hand one that was supposedly good. That arrived and has the same free play. So, we've used the original DMF to rebuild it.

Removing the DMF from the engine was also a substantial PITA. I shattered the only ribe bit we had of the right size (M12?) undoing the bolts so my Dad had to order a new one, which took a week to arrive. And new bolts for the DMF and the clutch as they all got mangled during the removal process.
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6th May

Having meticulously cleaned the sump up that was fitted to the Giulietta engine, my Dad found that it was different to the one fitted to the 159 engine. I think he also said that the oil pick up was different.

Which meant pulling the sump off the old engine and restating the cleaning process. As with the T-spark engine, there are bolts hidden between the side of the sump and the flywheel.

IMG_1638 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1644 by Chris, on Flickr
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11th May

During the week following the bank holiday Father had continued rebuilding the engine to the point where the head bolts needed torquing down. Again, whilst there is info in the 4C pdf document about this, the 4C uses an alloy block. So the torque figures for the 159 were likely to be different.

However, as seems to be the nom nowadays, the headset includes a sheet of paper indicating the tightening sequence and torques / angles to tighten the head bolts.

IMG_0482 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0483 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0484 by Chris, on Flickr

Next step was to fit the rockers. (Apparently they are designed to reduce rotational friction...)

IMG_0485 by Chris, on Flickr

And the the cams, firstly by locking the crankshaft;

IMG_0487 by Chris, on Flickr


Disappointingly, whilst the tool to lock the crank fits, the stand off bolt that locks it in place was too long.

IMG_0486 by Chris, on Flickr

Still did the job though.

Cam locks fitted;

IMG_0489 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0490 by Chris, on Flickr

This was an interesting problem.

The cam carrier is sealed to the head using two different types of sealant, red and black, I think it's something to do with one being anaerobic and the other aerobic.

Alfa couldn't supply the sealant.

I think the solution, which I wasn't really involved with, started with my Dad ringing Loctite, who proved to be exceptionally helpful. They sent a rep round to my Mum and Dad's house to have a look and come up with a corresponding product as they supply Alfa with it.

Hence, black and red gunge in strategic places as specified in the 4C pdf;

IMG_0497 by Chris, on Flickr

Fortunately, there is also information in the 4C information relating to torques and a tightening sequence for the cam carrier. With that bolted on we started with the cam timing kit;

IMG_0498 by Chris, on Flickr

Tensioning the belt using a screwdriver as seems to be the accepted way. Not sure how you're supposed to achieve this with the engine in the car...

IMG_0499 by Chris, on Flickr

Belt on;

IMG_0506 by Chris, on Flickr

Torqueing the cam pulleys was interesting. there is limited and conflicting information about what they should be. We went for 60N.m plus an angle, think it was 25 degrees.

The bolt heads that are visible are just sealing caps. The were refitted with new seals and torqued to 30N.m

IMG_0504 by Chris, on Flickr

The belt tensioning sequence is specified in the 4C data. It states to over tension the belt cam pulleys free to rotate. Lock the pulleys off, remove the locks, turn the engine 2 turns, refit the locks and re-tension the belt using the mark on the tensioner.

Which is the usual faff.

But this is where we found another potential problem;


The tapping or clicking is the inlet cam not turning smoothly. The valve timing is varied within the cam pulley. So we think that the cam pulley had failed. Which would explain why the engine had been removed. This is the new Giulietta engine, remember? And that we had not found any real reason why it had been removed.

but the other side of this is that whilst the cam pulleys are bolted to the cams stupidly tight, they're not locked on a taper like a v6. So maybe the toque we used was wrong?

Or maybe it's just because they don't have any oil in them and they're reliant on oil pressure to function properly?

We concluded that there was a problem on the basis that the exhaust cam was OK and the problem was limited to the intake cam only.

Which meant replacing the cam pulley with one from the old engine. Mint.
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And this weekend...

(I had Thurs and Fri off again to work on it.)

Father has been busy cleaning up the subframe, which is in really good condition;

IMG_0540 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0541 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0542 by Chris, on Flickr

The engine still wasn't completely built up. We've not taken one out of a car before, a complete engine at least, so we had no idea what to put on or leave off. We talked ourselves into putting as much on it as possible.

Starting with the fuel injectors, which, unsurprisingly, are direct injection. They are comprehensively buried under the inlet manifold on the back of the engine though.

IMG_0816 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0817 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0818 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_0819 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1696 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1697 by Chris, on Flickr

Along with the remaining ancillaries and belt;

IMG_1705 by Chris, on Flickr

Inlet manifold with new seals;

IMG_1707 by Chris, on Flickr
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And this is where other issues started to play a part. The engine, built up, is a mess. It's nothing like as elegant and simple busso V6. It's layers of hoses, wiring and brackets all laid on top of each other. Brackets, bolted to brackets. Sensors everywhere. It was a right pain to build up, taking a full day to build and put the gearbox on it.

I took a bunch of photos as I was going which I've posted below in case anyone needs them for reference more than anything else.

IMG_1708 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1709 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1710 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1712 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1714 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1715 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1716 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1717 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1718 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1720 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1721 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1724 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1725 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1727 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1732 by Chris, on Flickr
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The dust guard on the back of the engine, between that and the gearbox, is a revised part. It uses little plastic plugs to hold it in place rather than the bolts of the original part, which was a little confusing.

IMG_1735 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1736 by Chris, on Flickr

Even getting the engine off the stand and mated with the gearbox was a palaver. There is NOWHERE you can attach ropes without crushing or being something. A load leveller helped though.

IMG_1739 by Chris, on Flickr

With the gearbox on, it was time to fit the last bit in the jigsaw, the thermostat.

And it didn't fit. It's apparently unique to the tbi engine but based on the t-spark design. Which was disappointing. They're not easy to get hold of and means that we can't start the engine, or break it, depending on what's going on with the cam variators...

IMG_1741 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_1742 by Chris, on Flickr

Last edited by Chris155; 3 Weeks Ago at 23:45.
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Yesterday. Engine in.

IMG_8767 by Chris, on Flickr

IMG_8768 by Chris, on Flickr

Oooooh look, no thermostat...

IMG_8787 by Chris, on Flickr

But everything else is in it's place.

IMG_8788 by Chris, on Flickr
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Terrific stuff - and a great reference source for those happy to have a go. A credit to you and your dad
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Impressive work Chris. Locktite were helpful too!
If you're looking for an air conditioner radiator for a Giulietta Iíve got one. New in its box. Probably differs on the 159 though!
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Thanks but he's found a new radiator for it, it was cheap too.
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Wow. Are you and your dad professional mechanics or is this a hobby?
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Hobby, that is somewhat out of control...
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