Alfa 147 Instrument Cluster (Dash / Speedometer) pinout or wiring info - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 6 Old 12-12-14 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Japan
County: Tokyo
Posts: 3

Member car:

Alfa 147

Help Alfa 147 Instrument Cluster (Dash / Speedometer) pinout or wiring info

I have a nice Alfa 147 instrument cluster, which comes with an 18pin connector.
According to the wiring diagram on AutoData.com the pins are as below, and unlike the simpler models the 147 uses a serial differential VAN-H/VAN-L pair of wires to send all data.

The problem I now have is the VAN BUS Protocol ( not CAN BUS but VAN BUS - Vehicle Area Network ), its not well documented and tends to be per-manufacturer. I would like to reuse this very beautiful instrument cluster in my full sim dash but without the car (ECU and Multipurposes IO cabling rig and sensor inputs ) to go with it I cant work out what the protocols are.

Anyone have a dash they have in parts that can hook up some oscilloscope, or VAN BUS monitor to find out what the protocol is? ( I am happy to help with the decoding part )

Pinout for Alfa 147 according AutoData:
Pin 6 - Lights +v12 - "Headlamp low beam relay" ( Switched 12V )
Pin 5 - Lights GND or Headlight Adj Motor?
Pin 10 - Feed from "Engine control module (ECM)"
Pin 15 - Driver Seatbelt -V/GND
Pin 1 - +v 12 ( according to socket pinout picture ) - ( Unswitched 12V )
Pin 2 - +v 12 ( according to socket pinout picture ) - ( Switched 12V )
Pin 3 - Feed from "Multifunction control module" ( VAN Bus )
Pin 4 - Feed from Multifunction control module" ( VAN Bus )
Pin 7 - GND or -V
Pin 11 - Feed from "Headlamp adjustment switch" ( Trip computer control switch assembly ) - Probably analogue levels
Pin 9 - Feed from "Headlamp adjustment switch" ( Trip computer control switch assembly ) - Probably analogue levels
Pin 16 - Feed from "Headlamp adjustment switch" ( Trip computer control switch assembly ) - Probably analogue levels
Pin 14 - Feed from "Supplementary restraint system (SRS) control module"
Pin 13 - Feed from "Supplementary restraint system (SRS) control module"
Pin 12 - Feed from "Inertia fuel shut-off (IFS) switch" from GND/-V
( From my post on the Simulation Forum: Alfa Romeo 147 Cluster Pin's )

Also information on VAN bus:
VAN Bus Interfacing
"VAN uses a differential bus to remove the effect of common mode noise, the electrical signals are the same as CAN. .... VAN nodes all have their own clocks hence have to perform some level of clock recovery ... Manchester coding is a popular solution to this problem ... VAN data is broadcast on the bus in discreete frames of data encoded using E-Manchester that include an Identifier to allow recievers to filter the data they are interested in. Frame marking is made through the use of E-Manchester violations

This coding of every 4 bits by 5 bits makes length information a little ambiguous unless you remark on the codin (CAN is even more of a pain through the use of data dependant bitstuffing to enable clock recovery). For this reason I like to refer to Time Slices at this level, a Time Slice (TS) is the time taken to transmit a dominant or recessive bit on the bus in real time. Hence 4 bits take 5TS to transmit due to the E-Manchester bit being appended. A 125kbps VAN bus results in 1TS=8uS.
"

Circuit for monitoring your VAN bus
VAN Bus Interfacing
lucienmp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
jwq
Status: driving Giulia Veloce AWD
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
jwq's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 6,629
Garage
Don't know where you got this information, but ALL 147 models use the same architecture, using a CAN bus for information exchange.

Can (controller area network) network structure
To allow the exchange of information, electrical/electronic systems in VENICE PLUS communicate via two physically separate networks known as low speed B-CAN and high speed C-CAN. Data to be shared between the B-CAN and C-CAN networksare managed by the Body Computer which acts as a system gateway because it is equipped with both interfaces. Via this device, two different network architectures are able to connect and convert certain application protocols into equivalent protocols in the other system.
In practice, the body computer transfers information from the B-CAN (low speed) network to the C-CAN (high speed) network through the gateway and viceversa. Transfer may take place in two ways:
directly: i.e. the entire message is copied to the other network exactly as it is;
fragmented: i.e. the message received is broken down into its fields (signals) and recomposed as a new message by the other network.

Description
The gauges and warning lights which form the instrument panel are grouped in a single instrument containing:
electronic speedometer
electronic rev counter
coolant temperature gauge, with overheating warning light
fuel gauge, with reserve warning light
warning lights.
Depending on the version, the instrument panel is supplied in two models:
'LOW', fitted with: two LCD displays: one for the odometer, indication of the headlamp adjustmer, etc., the other for the clock, external temperature, etc.
'HIGH' version with the second LCD display, is of the active matrix type; also contains information relating to the trip computer etc.
The instrument panel is a node on the CAN network through which it exchanges information with the Body Computer and the other electronic units.

The instrument panel on the 147 is fitted in the B-CAN network and takes the name NQS (instrument panel connector)
The signals involving the systems in the C-CAN network are available to the NQS from the Body Computer connector via an interface known as a Gateway.
The task of the NQS is to the display the vehicle operating parameters and inform the user of possible failures in the electronic on board systems.
There are two basic versions of N.Q.S. the LOW LINE type N.Q.S. and the HIGH LINE type N.Q.S.
The LOW LINE version has two LCDs in TN technology
The HIGH LINE version has a TN technology LCD and a DSTN technology DOT display
The instrument panels also come with either a grey background or a black background to match the interior fittings

official pin-out:
1 - INT. +15 from fuse F37
2 - +30 from fuse F53
3 - B-CAN H
4 - B-CAN L
5 - Headlamp aglinment actuators signal reference
6 - Dipped headlamps positive from fuse F13 for headlamp alignment
7 - Earth
8 - Negative signal from trip computer button on steering column switch unit
9 - Signal from controls on PCS (left panel) (zero km, mode -)
10 - Negative signal i.e. warning light failure/EOBD from N.C.M.
11 - Signal from P.C.S. (headlamps up, headlamps down)
12 - Inertia switch intervention signal FPS (NA)
13 - C.A.B. failure warning light negative signal (AIR BAG)
14 - Passenger Air Bag disabled warning light negative signal
15 - Driver's seat belt not fastened negative signal
16 - Signal from controls at P.C.S. (MODE MODE +)
17 - Engine oil level sensor supply (JTD only); Engine oil temperature sensor signal (for GTA only)
18 - Signal from engine oil lever sensor (JTD only)

Last edited by jwq; 12-12-14 at 15:20.
jwq is online now  
(Post Link) post #3 of 6 Old 14-12-14 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Japan
County: Tokyo
Posts: 3

Member car:

Alfa 147

I got my data from AutoData.com which shows the wiring diagram as "VAN" coming out of the multi-function router. I also took the other signals from the diagrams. ( I am going to edit out my post given its wrong - less misinformation on the internet the better )

Thank you for your reply as well, invaluable. Can I ask where did you get your data from, I would love to look at it? ( voltage levels for the various sensors, etc )

Also do you have the packet structures for the NQS CAN-B?
( I did a bit of googling and started to find various tools, etc but nothing really detailed. I know there is the ability to display adhoc data on the LCD as well as the obvious instrument data )
lucienmp is offline  
jwq
Status: driving Giulia Veloce AWD
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
jwq's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 857
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 6,629
Garage
All the info comes from the official "elearn" digital workshop manual(s) for the 147 and gt.
The CD's can be bought via ebay, for a small amount.

Info regarding adressing, specific packets etc over the CAN bus is not published by Alfa (nor is it for most manufacturers), so the only way to find out is via CAN sniffers etc.
jwq is online now  
(Post Link) post #5 of 6 Old 14-12-14 Thread Starter
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Japan
County: Tokyo
Posts: 3

Member car:

Alfa 147

Yeah I saw the eLearn CDs but as I got free web access to AutoData.com I thought I had it all in hand. Although the data was pretty close from AutoData.com I (just the CAN vs VAN info and non-specific info on the pins usage ) I guess I got what I need from you - so a little saving to be had there Thanks again for that.

I had the whole assembly apart tonight. Pretty cool to get back to discrete component electronics again. Its a two layer PCB with discrete philips 7-segment controller for the ODO/TRIP, the MCU CPU drives most of the LED and the LCD, and the stepper motors ( CPU has built in PWM for steppers, CAN bus IO, and other dash-related capabiltiies ).

I have a partial circuit of the dash, sadly it uses the ROM MASK version of the Fujitsu MB90594GPF MCU CPU system so there was no way to read out or change the firmware it seems.

I then popped the CAN-H/CAN-L onto some fly leads and have only just started to look at the messages the CPU is sending using a 'scope - I will get a CAN rig setup soon.


>>>> ANYONE INTERESTED TO POP A CAN-BUS SNIFFER ONTO THEIR INSTRUMENT CLUSTER AND TELL ME WHAT THEY SEE <<<<<

I dont think I can go as far as buying a whole Alfa 147, as sexy as the car is I cant afford to park it here in Japan.
lucienmp is offline  
(Post Link) post #6 of 6 Old 6 Days Ago
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
County: -
Posts: 5
Hi
I saw this interesting post. Are you still working on your CANstuff? I bought an alfa 147 to do an EVconversion with a teslamotor an I will need to look into the CANbus data
ViktorTT is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa 147, 156 & GT

Tags
alfa 147 performance , cluster , instrument , pinout

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome