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(Post Link) post #1 of 31 Old 29-09-12 Thread Starter
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Hmmm GT 1.9 JTD - Should the clutch be heavy?

Hi all,

I wonder if you can help?

I've been to look at a GT 1.9 JTD today (late 2004 model with 60K miles on the clock), I like the look of it, but I'd not driven one before (neither a 156 or 147 either for that matter!) and a couple of things struck me that I'd be grateful for your views and experience on:

firstly although it seemed to work OK, the clutch pedal seemed very heavy compared to other Alfas I driven, such as the GTV; is this normal for Diesel GTs?

The front suspension seemed a little creaky, but looking at other threads its seems common for the wishbone bushes to wear, so I'm assuming its that? is there a Polyurethane bush solution?

I've also read the thread about 156 brake pipe corrosion, does this problem also affect the GT?

And finally I've seen mention of water pump issues, does this affect the Diesel, if so, typically at what mileage should it be changed? (and is it an easy job?)

lots of questions and you've probably all heard them before, but I would be grateful for your help

Thanks

Ian

Alfa Romeo GT 1.9JTD
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Hi Ian, sure others will comment but,
My brothers clutch on a GT jtd 66k is a little stiff, a little stiffer than average, when I got my 156 Jtdm Ti same engine and gearbox the clutch was really stiff 94k miles. It drove to 115k miles where I changed the slave cylinder and it seemed to become smoother and a tad lighter. Before needing a new clutch kit and DMF at 119k and my clutch is now toooooo light but only when getting in from another car, will soon stiffen up. Imo it also shows that its the clutch at fault rather than the clutch fork mechanism.

Suspension should be used as a bargaining tool, I would imagine as you say, upper wishbones. new OE ones are costly so expect to knock a couple of hundred off..

Cambelts are taken out by the water pump on this engine. pump siezes the pully no longer rotates and as the belt roles over it melts the belt. change is at 72k 5 years, I think, and on my brothers Gt he has just bought its documented as having 2x cambelts and water pump renewed both times as itemised in the billing.
Therefore I would hope the cambelt plus waterpump has been done on age rather than mileage.

Hope this helps,

Matt
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I had my clutch done on my 156 jtd and now its so light i'd never have belived it , I think its been 6 months since it was done
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Thanks Guys

Hmm.... waterpumps sound a little worrying, will have to check that one closely, is it easy to see, or is it buried? I assume if it has been changed when then cam belt was done (about 5K ago) it should be clean and easy to spot if it's been changed, if you can see it!

Clutch worked fine withno slippage, just heavy actuation. Having read a few other threads on the sbject now I think I would focus on the actuating arm lubrication/bushes and perhaps the slave cylinder first, 60K seems a little early for a clutch to go.

I've also been looking at powerflex bushes for suspension (used those on the Mrs' Fabia VRS and they were a huge improvement over the factory cheese versions). Changing the front wishbone seems a right rigmarole, is it not possible to get the wishbones off in situ or is there no access to get the long bolt out? Anyone tried powerflex bushes? If so are there any tips for those?

Has anyone found the 156 brake pipe hidden corrosion problem on their GT?

cheers

Ian
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Tried another GT today, 2 years younger, similar mileage. Much better no squeeky suspension and a much lighter clutch, this looks like a better deal than the first one, now just to sell the Fabia........
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Fabia sold!

So first thing tomorrow we'll be onto the dealer to secure the GT (assuming its not yet sold ).

plan then, as its done 59K, is to get it booked in for its 60K service including cambelt and water pump change, hope to be up and running in a GT by Friday if I'm lucky

cheers

Ian
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A heavy Alfa clutch is a worn Alfa clutch.
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After a bit of a pallava I took delivery of the GT today, got it for a good price I think (less than I got for the the Fabia and GTV combined so there is a bit of kitty for repairs), A bonus was that the deal was dependent on it having an MOT - this piece of paper ended up costing the dealer a new steering rack .

My first plan is to get it fully serviced including the cambelt and water pump change.

Driving it home today the gear change was quite stiff, left and right, with no spring loaded centring to the 3rd/4th plane. Spanners came out when I got home and I removed the left right selector mechanism and gave it a good greasing - its an improvement, but reading elsewhere I think some bushes need replacing too to make it behave properly. Clutch seems a bit heavier than I recall, this might just be from the car standing for a bit, but I think I will see about getting the actuator bushes changed and lubricated. Other than that it goes well, and is more comfortable, practical and quieter than the GTV, so I am happy.

There are a few small bits of cosmetic tidying to do - including getting the driver's seat side bolster retrimmed, once this is done I'll be happy, then I can get on with fitting an ipod connector and bluetooth so we have some good tunes to enjoy driving to.
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Having read threads elsewhere I tracked down the cause of the gearshift stiffness to the bushes in the selector plate on top of the gear box. Got some new bushes today and also some silicone grease (supposed to be the stuff to use with plastic bushes?).

Most threads I've read suggest removing the battery tray. However, I managed to change these bushes with the tray in place, though with the battery removed, I guess it depends on the size of your hands to squeeze between stuff. I also read many folk using a hammer or mallet to remove the selector crank bolt, but I found it easiest to use a screw driver behind the crank to lever it out from behind and thus remove the potential for damaging threads.

Removing the old bushes was a bit fiddly but the rear one came out easy enough with a screwdriver pushing it out from inside the shaft hole, the front one was more stubborn but gave way in the end. As recommended I used wet and dry paper to clean out the shaft bore before smearing it and the new bushes with silicone grease, once re-assembled all was self-centring and nice and smooth Took me about 45 minutes in all.

However, having fixed the shift problem, the clutch is getting worse and I reckon it is the clutch actuator bushes and/or an issue with the slave cylinder. As a short term fix I sprayed the top of the actuator arm bush with silicone lubricant, I got my daughter to work the clutch whilst spraying it, but was surprised by how little movement of the arm was achieved, this leads me to suspect that the stiff actuator may have caused the clutch hydraulics to develop a problem, at best I suspect it needs bleeding, but perhaps a new slave might be order of the day as well as replacing the actuator bushes. I've got the GT booked in for a full service, cambelt and water pump change, might ask them to have a look at the clutch issue too, reckon this is going to be a big bill, but it should be all the key residual issues with this GT sorted, leaving me to tinker with iPod docks, bluetooth and also repairing the driver's seat bolster.
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Quote:
the clutch is getting worse and I reckon it is the clutch actuator bushes and/or an issue with the slave cylinder
Bluesuit,

Having done this fix recently, it is definitely the bottom bearing on the actuator shaft. The day I did the fix it was cold and the oil took a real while to dribble down to the bottom bearing. Before the oil got there the clutch remained heavy. After it reached the bearing all was light and fluffy! Read the heavy clutch thread and follow the instructions. I didn't need to remove the slave cylinder, just popped the shaft back and disengaged the actuator arm. The bush on my GT was in good nick and the whole thing "looked" good, but was still heavy.

Good luck.
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on my second GT and this is only based on MY experience - pooey pedal - clutch changed (under warranty) ok for a bit then got really bad. So topped up the fluid in the reservoir beyonf the prescribed maximum after a bleed - all fine and then cluth went all baby poo in nappy (lots and lots) crappy. Pedal had been creaking for some time and tried the lube trick and worked for all of a couple of weeks. Changed the master cylinder and all was lovely - after a month or two, stick started to stick going into 1st - sold the car for something german, got REALLY REALLY REALLY BORED so i bought another GT - clutch is stiff as hell but the stick is smooth - not done anything with it and i don't plan to -love it just the way it is!!!

Will probably try changing the master again though!!!
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by the way - the colder weather does seem to affect it to a greater degree. if you ABSOLUTELY tan the car and change gears hard, initially your clutch pin will break but once you've changed that and continue to tan the car, it gets easier!!! JUST TAN IT.
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Hi there, you might want to rust proof the oil cooler pipes behind the lower air dam. If they corrode the joints will fail and you will eventually run out of oil. No need to say how bad that will be!
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That sounds like a job i could do .Some instructions please as I am a novice at this stuff
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these clutches sound a real pain, this one is certainly spoiling our ownership so far, I've asked Avanti to have a look at it next week when its in as I won't have time this weekend.

Thanks Ferret for the tip about oil cooler pipes I'll have a look for them.

Anyone know if the 156 rusty brake pipe problem also occurs on GTs?
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Originally Posted by ferret-ears View Post
Hi there, you might want to rust proof the oil cooler pipes behind the lower air dam. If they corrode the joints will fail and you will eventually run out of oil. No need to say how bad that will be!
Very good idea mate, i was driving my 2006 gt home from work the other day, a warning message appeared 'low oil pressure' i pulled the car in a the nearest layby and the oil was flying out of it, the oil cooler pipe was corroded that much it ate a big hole that drained the oil, thank god it was still under waranty so they changed the 2 pipes and serviced.

I to had the squeaky/stiff clutch since i bought the car but i just got used to it. But one thing thats really worried me is, yesterday i got into the car and it was frozen over so had to de-ice etc. but when driving i noticed the stiff clutch had gone but the 'bite' of the clutch was rite down at the end so i really had to push my foot down there to change gear, and even at that it was grinding at the odd shift. Usually the 'bite' of the clutch was near the middle-to-end. Anybody know what this could be? could it just be a case of adjusting the clutch? or is the clutch going to crap itself soon?
Any help is much appreciated!
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Originally Posted by sc0tty009 View Post
Very good idea mate, i was driving my 2006 gt home from work the other day, a warning message appeared 'low oil pressure' i pulled the car in a the nearest layby and the oil was flying out of it, the oil cooler pipe was corroded that much it ate a big hole that drained the oil, thank god it was still under waranty so they changed the 2 pipes and serviced.

I to had the squeaky/stiff clutch since i bought the car but i just got used to it. But one thing thats really worried me is, yesterday i got into the car and it was frozen over so had to de-ice etc. but when driving i noticed the stiff clutch had gone but the 'bite' of the clutch was rite down at the end so i really had to push my foot down there to change gear, and even at that it was grinding at the odd shift. Usually the 'bite' of the clutch was near the middle-to-end. Anybody know what this could be? could it just be a case of adjusting the clutch? or is the clutch going to crap itself soon?
Any help is much appreciated!
probably the slave or master cylinder ....i don't think they like cold weather! Mine went at about 70k miles. They have a certain shelf like i think.

waxoyl on the oil cooler pipes keeps the nasty corrosion away ....I f'in hope so anyway lol
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Yea im on 69K at the moment so probably not far away! i take it you changed the slave and the master cylinder?
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Yea im on 69K at the moment so probably not far away! i take it you changed the slave and the master cylinder?
Nope just the one that was leaking ....can't remember which one. garage did it. Think it was the one that is accessible from the drivers footwell (as opposed to the other one which is under the battery tray).
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Good man, will look into this
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Gt oil cooler pipes corrosion

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Originally Posted by 300stu View Post
That sounds like a job i could do .Some instructions please as I am a novice at this stuff
there is a post for this problem if you do a search (not yet worked out how to do a link to it)
but these are some of the pics.

Last edited by ferret-ears; 07-11-13 at 14:08.
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Thanks for that - don't fancy loosing all my oil - those pictures are rather worrying - another thing for Avanti to check for me on the service.

The clutch bite on mine has also gone pretty much to the floor, hence suggesting to me there is also a problem with the clutch master or slave cylinder.

On the positive side the gearshift is now wonderful, so once the clutch is sorted I should be able to start enjoying the car.

Will update you with developments in due course!

cheers

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GT heads off for service and detailed inspection of various snags, or potential snags. The wallet will be considerably lighter on its return but hopefully gear change issues will be a thing of the past and I should be able to sit more confident the knowledge that stuff has been replaced or inspected and found to be good, here's hoping......
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GT back on the drive and the wallet is a lot lighter

60K service, Cambelt Water pump and clutch changed in the end - all is wonderful now, hope it stays that way! Oil pipes were OK and have been painted to give some protection.

just some new front tyres and then some cosmetics, but I'll leave those until the piggy bank fills up again!

cheers Ian
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GT back on the drive and the wallet is a lot lighter

60K service, Cambelt Water pump and clutch changed in the end - all is wonderful now, hope it stays that way! Oil pipes were OK and have been painted to give some protection.
whole clutch changed?
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