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(Post Link) post #1 of 42 Old 31-08-11 Thread Starter
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Hi,

I am going to change my cam belt and water pump on saturday on my 1.9jtd, i dont have locking tools, i have changed belts in the past on different makes of car, has anyone else done it without special tools? did you find any pitfalls in d.i.y?

Thanks
John
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John, it would be a Godsend if you could take some pix when you do this job. Am thinking of tackling this myself and I believe the special tools aren't entirely necessary.

The only info I could find online was this (apologies to the author of this guide, I've forgotten your name and where i found the link ):

How to change the Timing Belt on an Alfa GT 1.9 JTD 2005.
This past week-end I successfully changed the timing belt on my GT diesel. Although I had the right tools and some procedures I struggled a bit because certain things were either not mentioned or not too clear to me.

This procedure is thus aimed at making easy to perform this task avoiding a couple of hours wasted wondering about something.

1. Tools required.
a. Normal sockets and ring spanners for 10, 15, 17, 19 and 22 mm.
b. Ribe bits sizes M (timing belt cover), M (crankshaft pulley) and M (bracket for the reaction link).. With care you can use Torx bits T40 (timing belt cover), T47 (crankshaft pulley) and T 55 (bracket for the reaction link) instead, but is not ideal.
c. Torque wrenches for 10 to 55 N-m. Ideally these should be very shallow otherwise you won´t be able to use them for a couple of bolts like the timing belt tensioner due to the limited space available.
d. Camshaft locking tool Alfa P/N 1.870.896.900
e. Crankshaft locking tool Alfa P/N 1.860.905.000
f. Calibrated screw for above tool Alfa P/N 1.860.905.010
g. You can see a picture of the tools at: http://home.intekom.com/alberto/Alfa/Timing_Tools.jpg
h. Allen Keys: 5mm and 8mm.
i. Smaller tools, like screw drivers, etc.
2. Parts required.
a. Cambelt P/N 0046791189
b. Cambelt Tensioner P/N 0071747799
c. Cambelt Pulley P/N 0055187100
d. Auxiliary Belt P/N 0055189677
e. Aux. Belt Tensioner P/N 0071747798
f. Aux. Belt Pulley P/N 0046794035
g. Water Pump P/N 046804051
h. Hose clamp, screw type to replace the one in the bottom hose of the radiator. Stainless steel is recommended, like from Hella.
3. Procedure
I would strongly advise to purchase the tools as they are available and quite inexpensive, about the cost of an extra pulley.
a. Disconnect the battery
b. Remove the engine cover
c. Remove the engine upper reaction link. It is the short torsion bar on the left hand side of the engine inking it to the suspension strut turret.
d. Remove the Diesel Control Unit. Squarish box with the two large electrical connectors on top situated between the engine and the inner side of the fender by lifting the levers. This is to gain some space.
e. Lift the front right hand side of the car. I use a large hydraulic jack on the inner lifting point and as a safety also put the normal car jack without taking much weight on it in case the hydraulic jack would fail. Remove the right front wheel
f. Remove the plastic cover fitted to the right wheel arch guard that gives access to the crankshaft pulley. You don´t need to remove the wheel arch guard. I did so unnecessarily.
g. Make a diagram of the auxiliary belt layout to facilitate re-fitting.
h. Remove the auxiliary belt by fitting a spanner on the bolt of the pulley and turning it anti-clockwise to the maximum travel. Slide off the belt or better ask an assistant to do so.
i. Remove the auxiliary belt fixed pulley.
j. Remove the auxiliary belt tensioner.
k. Remove the crankshaft pulley. Keep it steady using a socket on the centre bolt.
l. Remove all three timing belt covers. At the point of removing the top left cover it may be easier to remove the bracket on the engine where the reaction link was attached. (Take care not to disturb the separator where the horizontal bolt goes through). Beware that in my car two of the timing belt cover bolts had 5mm Alley Key heads and not Ribe as the rest.
m. At this point you must make sure that you understand the usage of the timing tools and verify the alignment using them.
n. Remove the plug to the right of the camshaft pulley fitted to the engine cylinder head that covers the actual camshaft. Use the 8mm Allen Key.
o. Now fit the camshaft locking tool noticing that the actual plunger is spring loaded so at this stage it does not matter what the camshaft position is.
p. Rotate slowly the camshaft clockwise using the centre bolt until you hear a “click” indicating that the camshaft tool has engaged into the slot of the camshaft. Now the camshaft is locked in the TDC position.
q. Working on the crankshaft pulley, present the locking plate (P/N 1.860.905.000). The longer part should be to the left. Locate a bolt on the crankshaft cover that would be aligned with the hole at the extreme of the tool. Remove this bolt and in its place screw the spindle part of tool P/N 1.860.905.000. Now re-position the crankshaft locking plate and it should be perfectly aligned with the spindle and the plate aligned to the crankshaft by means of the dowel pin on the crankshaft.
r. At this stage you could put the calibrated screw but it is not necessary. You have now verified that you can align the camshaft to the crankshaft.
s. Make a diagram of the timing belt layout.
t. Loosen the timing belt tensioner and remove the timing belt.
u. Now we need to drain the radiator. To achieve this it is necessary to loosen the bottom radiator hose.
v. The factory fitted clamp can be removed by first sliding off the safety curl. Use a flat screw driver and thin nose pliers but be careful that the radiator is plastic. Once this curl is off it is easy to open the clamp at the crimping point. Drain the radiator.
w. Replace the radiator hose and fit a new clamp.
x. Replace the water pump.
y. Here you can see a picture of the water pump removed: http://home.intekom.com/alberto/Alfa...mp_removed.jpg
z. Re-fill the radiator with 50-50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water.
aa. Replace the fixed timing belt pulley.
bb. Replace the timing belt tensioner leaving the bolt a bit loose at this stage.
cc. Now the timing belt needs to be fitted. Take note that the belt has yellow arrows pointing to the direction of rotation. The arrows must point in a clockwise direction.
dd. The belt also has two yellow lines. Note that both the camshaft toothed belt pulley and the crankshaft tooth belt pulley have each a white mark on the front face next to the teeth.
ee. The mark on the belt closer to the arrows needs to align to the white mark on the crankshaft toothed pulley. Before placing it paint the front face of the belt teeth at either side of the yellow line because when the belt sinks into the teeth you will not be able to see the line any longer.
ff. Now place the belt on the crankshaft aligned to the white mark on the pulley and wind it upwards. The other yellow line will now match exactly the white mark on the camshaft pulley. This is a further confirmation that things are ok. Complete placing the belt around the other pulleys and the tensioner. (If you wish you can also lock the crankshaft for this operation. I found to be not necessary).
gg. Now we need to tension the belt. This is achieved by placing a large flat screw driver between the engine recess and the bent tongue of the mounting plate of the belt tensioner. Make the metal arrow to align with the pressed dot or hole on the same mounting plate (black metal) and at this point tighten the belt tensioner bolt.
hh. Verify that the crankshaft aligning tool still aligns to the spindle. Remove this tool and the camshaft plunger tool.
ii. Rotate the camshaft a bit less than two turns and re-fit the camshaft plunger tool. Continue rotating the crankshaft until you hear the click indicating that the camshaft tool has engaged. Now re-check that the crankshaft tool indicates correctly.
jj. Remove the tools and check that the tensioner arrow is still aligned with the dot. If not re adjust the tensioner and repeat the above process to confirm alignment and tension. Do not check the tension with the alignment tools in place as this will cause a reading error. The timing belt is now ready. (Keep in mind that the yellow lines on the belt will wonder around once you rotate the crankshaft, so those references are good as a second check initially but only your tools will allow to check the alignment thereafter).
kk. Replace the timing belt covers and the bracket for the reaction link.
ll. Fit the fixed auxiliary belt pulley. Fit the crankshaft pulley and also fit the tensioner for the auxiliary belt, this time also tightened.
mm. Now fit the auxiliary belt. You will need an assistant, remembering that you need to place a spanner on the pulley´s bolt and rotate it counter-clockwise to be able to slide the belt in. (This can be the trickiest part of the process!).
nn. Fit the reaction link, fit the crankshaft plastic cover on the wheel arch underguard and re-fit the wheel.
oo. Re-fit the engine cover.
pp. Done.
4. Torques
a. Timing Belt tensioner: M8, 23 to 28 N-m
b. Reaction link bracket to the engine: M10, 45 to 55 N-m, all three bolts.
c. Reaction link bolts: M10, 45 to 55 N-m
d. Cranshaft pulley: M8, 23 to 28 N-m
e. Auxiliary belt tesnioner: M10, 45 to 55 N-m
f. Fixed timing belt pulley: M10, 45 to 55 N-m
g. Water pump: M8, 23 to 28 N-m
h.


Which is all very useful, but I need pix!

Will watch this thread with great interest
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Hi John, I attempted a cambelt and waterpump change yesterday, minus said locking tools, and all seemed ok, having now replaced the pump and belt.My advice would be to get a full set of ribe bits as they are needed throughout!

I was intending to reassemble today however I'm currently unsure whether i have got the cambelt to the required tension level?. I cant see how but I'm not 100% sure the locking devices may needed in some way.
Others have done the job without the tools so i may be worrying unnecessarily.
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There are locking tools and we always use them, it is possible to do it without but if you want to give someone a proper guarantee you need to use the correct tools, below is a link to a place you can buy them from

AST4850 FIAT TIMING LOCKING TOOL KIT

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As Ned said you should use the locking tools although it is possible to do the belt and waterpump without on the jtd. I have done it both ways with no ill effects but find the tools make life a lot easier.
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Ned, i understand when your doing a job for other people you would always use locking tools, i think I'd actually expect that if someone was doing the work for me, however i'm sure there are also many places that don't, for whatever reason.

Both you and Joss have relieved my worries though, having replaced my belt and pump yesterday (sorry to hijack John's thread btw) Could one of you please confirm that as long as tensioner arrow is pushed to ther maximum with the tensioner itself not tightened, then tensioner is fully tightened, this will provide sufficient tension, even without the locking tools, aws mine looks a tad slack, especially on the lower pully. The engine remains in perfect timing when turned either by hand or when started, but i'd really like your advice on correct tension before i start replacing all other parts. Thanks all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezste View Post
g. Water Pump P/N 046804051
There is a new part number (as of August 2008) which superseded the one you mention; 55209993.
It would probably be flagged up when ordering, but just in case...
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Hi matt. Tension without the tool is a bit of a faff. I used to lift the arrow to the top and then do the 13mm bolt up. I've included a picture. Idealy the arrow must point at the dimple at the top of the back plate once you have rotated the engine a couple of times to make sure the belt sits right. If it is not you need to retension again. I usually find it needed doing twice without the correct tool but with it usually comes out bang on.
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Thanks Ned, this is the problem. I'm pushing the arrow right to the top, then tightening tensioner nut, however arrow falls back down once screwdriver released? Have i a faulty tensioner (should i remove belt and replace old one?) i understood that arrow should remain in place, i could then do two manual turns and then tighen/loosen as necessary, however my arrow always falls back? Thanks Ned, i dont want to start rebuilding without knowing i've done this right, as my DIY to save £££'s could prove a lot more costly!
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Sorry that was a reply to Joss...apologies! thanks
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Nothing wrong mate. It's just you kinda need three hands which is why the tool makes life easy. You have to push the tension arrow up whilst pulling the tensioner towards the front of the car to make the belt tight as it can slide on the side of the block. You do this you nip up the 13mm bolt. This stops the arrow falling back too loose again. This is why it's hit an miss as you can leave too much tension in it if you try too hard. That should make sense.

P.s the tensioner tool effectively lifts the arrow and slides the tensioner forward in one motion which is why it is easier with it.

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Last edited by Joss; 31-08-11 at 11:43.
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thanks Joss i'm so glad i checked with the forunm, as i knew something was amiss! going to attempt it correctlky this time, will report back but thanks again in advance mate
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Damn, after all that I think I'll pay someone to do it. Whose cheapest/best in the North West?
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This might be worth investing in tho . . .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Tim...item2a0d47d0bc
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Quote:
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Damn, after all that I think I'll pay someone to do it. Whose cheapest/best in the North West?
Gus at Alfatune is up mersyside way

Alfatune Motorsport
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Ta. Has anyone any idea how much he charges as there is no mention of it on the website?

Gus?
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No idea but I know he is well priced and the work is top notch. I'm sure gus will be along to say something in a minute!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autolusso View Post
There are locking tools and we always use them, it is possible to do it without but if you want to give someone a proper guarantee you need to use the correct tools, below is a link to a place you can buy them from

AST4850 FIAT TIMING LOCKING TOOL KIT

Ned
£80 v engine bang is a no brainer..........use locking tools, u can allways sell em on!
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Thanks again for the earlier help, car all patched up and seems to be running well. Whether i'd attempt it again is another thing!

Quick question for Joss regarding the earlier tensioner advice. I seemed to be able second time around to put the tensioner in such a position that i was able to tighten and the arrow kept where it should be. The belt now appears much much tighter and the arrow mark is aligned with the indentation. With the engine running this arrow varies as the tensioner does its job however returns to the correct indentation point when engine stopped. Question is does the small round engine protrusion have to sit right in the two 'arms' of the tensioner, as when i raiised mine it moved so that its attached about half way up the two arms.

Just thought i'd double check. Seems to be running just fine, however had a sneeking doubt about this?
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The marker on the tensioner should be in the middle once tensioned.When the engine is turned over the marker will move slightly and should line up once the locking tools are refitted to check tension.If you fit an original timing belt kit they have marks on the belt to line up with the marks on the crank and the marks on the camshaft .Once the engine is turned over the marks will no longer aline so it best to use the locking tools.
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The tensioner will move about when running. Some times when you stop the engine it will roll back slightly so it will seem way off. As srs says if you turn the engine over by the crank and it goes back to the dimple all is well. Running slightly slack is acceptable too. But only very slightly. Not sure i understand what you mean by where the protrusion sits. I think you mean it is sat in the gap between the two bits of metal on the tensioner but not right against the curved bit right in the end. If this is what you mean then yes that is correct
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Thanks Joss, thats's exactly what i mean. It sits between the two metal strips but is no longer sat right back into the curve. If this is fine then i've done it right and need not worry. Thanks again.
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Thank you for your replies and experiences lads, looking forward to Saturday morning and getting my hands dirty.

John.
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Quote:
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Thanks Joss, thats's exactly what i mean. It sits between the two metal strips but is no longer sat right back into the curve. If this is fine then i've done it right and need not worry. Thanks again.
No worries mate

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Thank you for your replies and experiences lads, looking forward to Saturday morning and getting my hands dirty.

John.
It's all pretty straight forward. Eaaaaaassssyyy peeeeaaaasey
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