Little problem and some additional help - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 11 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Little problem and some additional help

So, I own 156SW 1.9JTD 16V '05 (103kW) (192 A5.000) for 3 years now and I have a little problem with car, and wanted to fix it in next few days. And while fixing it wanted to add some stuff to it too.

First the main problem that I have is, I have error about cooler of the car. Namely 2nd speed is not working and I am afraid I will fry engine in summer times.
Did test the relay by the battery, it works and blower goes on higher speed. When testing it over OBD, it just runs 1st speed, 2nd not.

I found i AutoData that pin 69 on connector A (bigger one) should be the one that activates relay (pulls it to the mass), is this the right one?

Also, what are temperatures at which those two blower speeds are activated, I have a feeling that 1st speed activates pretty late... (I found it is approx 95 and 102'C but isn't that a bit to high?)

Now I found that on pin 58 (block A) and pin 41 (block B) it should have a coolant temperature readout (30'C - 3.2V, 60'C - 1.7V), what is normal working temperature of the car and its coolant temperature?

For some reason, I have a feeling that fuel and temperature gauge are not showing right value at all.
For fuel, somewhere at 1/3 on gauge is approx 1/2 of tank. And for temperature it is around 70'C (a bit too low), and then it jumps pretty fast over 90'C when heated a bit...


...now I bit of a additional help and questions?

Is it possible to change door locking module from 147 with window up/down function to 156? My car has key fob with 2 buttons (one for lock/unlock and second for trunk)?
How hard is it to equip car with TCS/ESP if it only has ABS module? (presumably also from other 156/147)
Can I retrofit a automatic wipers and what is needed to be changed in order for it? I presume that I'd need to get my hands on central rearview mirror with rain/dayligh sensors and handle that has auto besides standard functions, but is there anything else needed?
My car didn't come with front headlight washers, is there another pump needed for it? I noticed there is one spare connector in front bumper, is it for washer motor? Do I need to change the pump for it, or do I need only a Y junction to current tubing? Also is it possible to retrofit heater from 147 for washer fluid?
On pin 48 (block A) is a tacho readout (100Hz for 3000rpm), can this signal be used for digital tacho (HUD or something), and also what signal does a speedo at pin 27 (block A) gives, is it also impulse signal? Does anyone know for speedo what is proportion (km/h <> Hz)?

Last thing, is it needed to take off the wheel in order to change turn signal relay? It is by the handle of turn signals? Wanted to change all bulbs to LEDs and I do have problem with turn signals going high wire...

Thanks in advance

Last edited by rex1825; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:29.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 11 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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With regard to cooling fan high speed, it becomes deactivated if A/C is not working.
See here;
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...sues-help.html (Clearing up cooling fan issues- help)

AFAIK, the temperatures are 92 degrees and 95 degrees for each fan speed.

Some 156s have inaccurate fuel gauges and work as per yours.

Forget a 147 electric window modification. 147s and GTs are CanBus electronics where everything is controlled by the body computer.

Does your car have a VDC light and ASR button beside the fog lamp buttons?

Later type headlamp washing is not recommended as the washer valves are prone to leak. You need a bumper with flaps, washer valves, hoses, larger screen wash reservoir with the extra high pressure pump for headlamp washing. The washer valves are not cheap and hard to obtain. The spare multiplug is for the headlamp washer pump.

I do not recommend trying to add in automatic windscreen wipers. The 156 wiper linkage tends to suffer wear. Cars with automatic wipers cause greater wear on wiper linkage and blades. It is also an excellent way to damage wiper motor and/or linkage in winter conditions.

The steering wheel needs to be removed to change the indicator relay on 2002 and later cars. Either that or wire in load resistors for each 21watt indicator bulb.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 11 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruity View Post
With regard to cooling fan high speed, it becomes deactivated if A/C is not working.
See here;
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...sues-help.html (Clearing up cooling fan issues- help)

AFAIK, the temperatures are 92 degrees and 95 degrees for each fan speed.

Some 156s have inaccurate fuel gauges and work as per yours.

Forget a 147 electric window modification. 147s and GTs are CanBus electronics where everything is controlled by the body computer.

Does your car have a VDC light and ASR button beside the fog lamp buttons?

Later type headlamp washing is not recommended as the washer valves are prone to leak. You need a bumper with flaps, washer valves, hoses, larger screen wash reservoir with the extra high pressure pump for headlamp washing. The washer valves are not cheap and hard to obtain. The spare multiplug is for the headlamp washer pump.

I do not recommend trying to add in automatic windscreen wipers. The 156 wiper linkage tends to suffer wear. Cars with automatic wipers cause greater wear on wiper linkage and blades. It is also an excellent way to damage wiper motor and/or linkage in winter conditions.

The steering wheel needs to be removed to change the indicator relay on 2002 and later cars. Either that or wire in load resistors for each 21watt indicator bulb.
Thanks for answers, but sadly petrol and diesel engines have different wiring, will check those connections regardless to see if anything can be seen there.
Just to clarify, what exactly does do thermostat? On 1.9 JTD 16V it is located on the side where battery is, bolt to the engine. I've checked today temperatures while I was driving over OBD and got approx 82'C while thermo was showing 70'C. And what's more funny, it wen't up to approx 78'C pretty fast, but thermo didn't show almost no changes quite some time after...
When I switch AC on, slow speed fan (Fan1) kicks in ASAP.

Tacho and speedo don't have VDC at all, car came only with ABS, and also ASR button is not presented at all. I was looking through schematics for the car, base difference as far as I saw was only the ABS module, one with TCS/ESP had additional wires for YAW only, ABS sensors on wheels are used as TCS and ABS. So it shouldn't be that complicated to replace ABS module only, ...I hope.

My car originally had headlight washers, but bumper was replaced due to the accident. Also reservoir is approx 5.5 liters or something.

I've noticed that wiper blades are a bit weak. Will see to replace those.

I already wired load resistors, but it is just a solution for now, since my point is to go down with power consumption by switching over to LED for all lights except main, high and front fogs.

Thanks
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(Post Link) post #4 of 11 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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I've heard that certain markets and engines on 147 didn't have VDC and ASR. I guess the 156 is similar. I cannot say for sure but I think you should have the wiring in your car already. From memory, the yaw sensor is around the gearstick but you would also need the steering angle sensor mounted at steering wheel.

The major thing to be aware of with the VDC ABS type pump is that the brake pedal travel is further though. I find earlier cars have a better feeling brake pedal.

I'm not sure on A/C wiring and just posted what I found. Unfortunately I don't have the eLearn manual which should have the necessary information. It is good to know about the fan coming on though.

Try to see if you can work out the pressure switch wiring. When mine had no signal, a diagnostic fan high speed actuation reported "not supported" in diagnostic tool. Once I earthed it, it worked.

The coolant gauge is approximate. Using diagnostic software gives a more accurate coolant temperature even though both systems use the same sensor which has 2 Negative Coolant Resistors (or thermisters).

You can check thermostat operation by ensuring the hoses to heater get warm before the thermostat opens around 88 (I think) degrees. The radiator top hose should remain cool until the thermostat opens. Monitor coolant temperature diagnostically whilst checking.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 11 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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...also forgot to mention one more thing, if it is anyhow possible to solve that is.

Car appears to show 2x max length achievable with current fuel in reservoir and driving style. For example when I fill up the reservoir (63l) it is showing me 2500-2600km range, which I know is half of that. And MPG is showing approx 25% less than it actually is, 3.6-3.8l/100km but it should be approx 4.8-5.2l/100km. Is there any way to solve this? Or are those just gremlins everyone is talking about?

Is there any pinout for central display so one can put custom one on there, or even android based system with additional serial port for car info?
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I don't know why the calculated range on your car is so high.
Normally what happens is a speedo fault which outputs its travelled distance as km rather than miles. This has the effect that the trip computer then sees distance and speed as 0.6214 of what it actually is. This causes distance, speed and calculated fuel economy to only be 0.6214 of what it actually is. However, when this happens, the speedo and odometer in the speedo still work normally.

I'm not aware of a system which can use Android based software to work in its place but it may not be impossible.
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Lots of themes in 1 thread make this very confusing.

Regarding the thermostat. Change it. They break frequently. Jtdms rarely overheat if they have coolant. I don't recall the second fan even engaging on mine.

The computer display is junk so just ignore the range, mpg etc.

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Here is how it looks on dash, and over OBD
https://imgur.com/X6ma0Tv
https://imgur.com/bsOXrF0
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The 156 gauge reads correct in the sense it is responsive. The digital readout is the true value. Both signals come from the same sensor in the thermostat housing. The 147 stays steady on 90 even if the temp is a little lower or higher and you need the cars data to get a reading. You likely have an open thermostat. The car will take ages to warm up. When all is good 10mins of driving should see your gauge sit at 90. A working stat opens at 88 but they are very prone to failure. On the 156 the needle moves when the thermostat opens. You can see it rapidly release water to the radiator.
I replaced mine twice in 60,000miles. Fortunately it is quite accessible and easy to fit. The last one I purchased was under 100. My second replacement was beginning to struggle to 90 on the gauge and I did consider stuffing a cheap Renault 4 item in the top radiator hose. Running at less than 88 does impact on fuel economy.

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I have problems in winter, it takes ages to warm up. But now in summer, it needs approx 10min. But it stays around 70'C all the time, while over OBD it reads 82-85'C... is this faulty gauge maybe?

I just ordered Behr thermostat for Friday to change it together with maintenance of the car (oil, filters, A/C)... approx 75eur with hands + 70eur for maintenance...
Hope it will bring gauge back to 90'C after that...
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(Post Link) post #11 of 11 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Just finished service and they've changed thermostat, now it seems car reaches 90-92'C but when driving it goes back to 85'C. Not sure it is OK...

Also, I cannot believe that steering rack on left side has a bit of gap... I did notice when turning wheel to one side it sometimes as if jumps (don't know how to explain).
How dangerous is this, and in worse case scenario what can happen?

Just to add, I am a bit confused, seems that car first turns on Fan2 speed @92'C then Fan1 speed @95'C, because my fans didn't go on up until 95'C (was testing a bit with reving car).
Does anyone have what is layout of relay box in front of battery on 156 1.9JTD 16V 2005?

Last edited by rex1825; 1 Week Ago at 12:34.
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