Nev & Ghosty - I had a very busy day at work today so didn't have time to comment/discuss some of your posts. I have dragged you over here as I didn't want to continue the conversation on that thread.
With regards to what you said about the mouse - you are not right in saying that xerox invented the mouse - it was actually Douglas Engelbart who invented the first mouse. Xerox then advanced it - but it was only with the release of the Apple Macintosh in 1984 that the mouse saw widespread use. The Macintosh design, commercially successful and technically influential, led many other vendors to begin producing mice or including them with their other computer products (in 1985, Atari ST, Commodore Amiga, Windows 1.0
, and GEOS for the Commodore 64).
And as for the comments on the user interface, again you are right in saying that xerox did produce one but not the graphical user interface as we know it. In fact I feel quite happy in stating that Apple invented the GUI as we know it today.
And then of course Microsoft came along and nicked it all
Some Microsoft advocates seem to wonder why “what Microsoft did to Apple” was different from “what Apple did to Xerox”. There were several differences. For starters, both Xerox and Apple were pioneering GUI concepts simultaneously. Clearly some concepts were developed at Xerox first and some were developed at Apple first. The problem for Apple was that they actually visited with the Xerox team to see what they were doing. This and this alone is what led some to the perception that Apple just stole their GUI from Xerox. Apple paid in stock (worth millions) for this brief visit. The agreement was up front. Apple didn’t see how things were done in any detail and the programming environment Xerox was working in was so different from Apple’s development environment that it wouldn’t have mattered if they did see the details behind Xerox’s work. Microsoft was not just a competitor to Apple, but they were also a developer for the Mac platform. They had intimate access to Apple’s APIs and frameworks to see how to create a GUI. Not only did Microsoft copy Apple’s work in concept, but as a developer for Apple, they had the blueprint from which to copy. Further, there have been no real significant GUI conventions that Apple is using which originated at Microsoft. With each release of Windows, it became clear that Microsoft was not interested in innovation since it was easier just to copy. With the Windows 95 release, it was clear that Microsoft wasn’t even trying to hide their intentions of copying Apple.
In 1979, Jef Raskin started the Macintosh project at Apple. He identified a need for a computer that was easier to use than anything developed to date. Both the Macintosh project and the Lisa project were works in progress prior to Apple’s infamous visit to Xerox. Apple and Xerox were in simultaneous development of a GUI. Apple was aware of Xerox’s work because the founder of the Macintosh project, Jef Raskin had lectured at Xerox on the topic prior to joining Apple. Jef Raskin was something of an authority on the subject at the time. He had written his Master’s thesis on a WYSIWYG graphical interface back in 1967. Likewise, many of the same ideas that fueled Xerox’s effort originated from the creator of the Macintosh project.
At the same time, it would be unfair to suggest Apple visited Xerox and didn’t come away with any ideas. Clearly they did. The fact that Apple’s Lisa GUI was different from Apple’s Macintosh GUI should make that clear enough. But, the devil is in the details. Apple wasn’t developing in a Smalltalk environment, Apple had resource limitations that Xerox didn’t. That is, Apple had to make a GUI work on an affordable piece of hardware. Xerox was working purely in a research environment without the same hardware limitations.
There was an interesting essay written by Bruce Horn back in 1996 about this topic. Bruce was of the people recruited from Xerox to work for Apple on the Macintosh project. Clearly, he’s one of the few people that can say with authority what work was developed at which company. Below are a few excerpts from his essay.
“For more than a decade now, I’ve listened to the debate about where the Macintosh user interface came from. Most people assume it came directly from Xerox, after Steve Jobs went to visit Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). This “fact” is reported over and over, by people who don’t know better (and also by people who should!). Unfortunately, it just isn’t true - there are some similarities between the Apple interface and the various interfaces on Xerox systems, but the differences are substantial.”
Again, Bruce goes on to talk about the Smalltalk environment created at Xerox as this was more significant than the actual GUI pioneering they did.
“Smalltalk has no Finder, and no need for one, really. Drag-and- drop file manipulation came from the Mac group, along with many other unique concepts: resources and dual-fork files for storing layout and international information apart from code; definition procedures; drag-and-drop system extension and configuration; types and creators for files; direct manipulation editing of document, disk, and application names; redundant typed data for the clipboard; multiple views of the file system; desk accessories; and control panels, among others. The Lisa group invented some fundamental concepts as well: pull down menus, the imaging and windowing models based on QuickDraw, the clipboard, and cleanly internationalizable software.”
The list goes on. In fact, he talks about Bill Atkinson’s windowing model and how it was designed. Bill wasn’t even aware of the fact that Xerox’s model didn’t even have self-repairing windows as the Mac did. The point here is that there is a big difference between broad concepts and the actual implementation. Clearly, the Macintosh architecture solved problems that the Xerox team wasn’t even aware of.
The concept of pull down windows is one of the most basic functions of the modern GUI. Again, this is yet another thing that didn’t exist at Xerox. Drag and Drop? Yes, another concept developed at Apple. Control panels? Yup, Apple. Clipboard metaphor / concept? Yup, Apple. Desk Accessories? We know them now as Widgets or Gadgets, but the concept originated at Apple. Most people don’t realize even how icons were used on the Xerox Star. Icons were used as verbs. Like an icon to “save” a file. On the Macintosh, you could use icons as objects, like a trash can or you could drag a document onto an application icon to open it, etc.
In the end, who created the GUI? There is no single entity that can take credit for that. Apple advocates want to say Apple did. Microsoft advocates would love to say Microsoft did, but there has never been any evidence to support that. Instead, if they can’t attribute this innovation to Microsoft, they refuse to acknowledge Apple’s work so they claim Xerox invented it all.
The problem with the Xerox takes all claim is that most of the basic elements required for a GUI predate Xerox’s work as well. As mentioned earlier, they didn’t create bit mapped graphics, they didn’t create icons, they didn’t create the mouse pointer, etc. At the same time, they did evolve the concept into a rudimentary working model.
Moreover, if we look at the modern GUI today, it more closely resembles the work done with the original Macintosh than anything else, including Apple’s earlier Lisa system. That’s probably true for several reasons. For starters, Xerox was never able to successfully commercialize their work. Apple’s GUI was certainly the first commercially successful GUI and certainly the first GUI that anyone outside of the Xerox PARC lab that anyone would have ever seen. Also, the market leader, Microsoft basically did just steal from Apple. As such, it is understandable why Apple’s GUI and whatever we call “today’s modern GUI” to be very similar in convention.
Finally, Apple was the company that brought the GUI concept to the public and made them aware of it. The majority of today’s GUI conventions date back to Apple’s work more so than any other single entity. For that reason, in my opinion, Apple deserves the lion’s share of the credit for this innovation. But, in the end, neither Apple nor Xerox can claim they alone created the GUI. Clearly, the work from those such as Douglas Englebart, Jef Raskin, etc. predates either works from either Xerox or Apple and this foundation was a necessary building block for both companies. Though both can claim partial credit, when you look at the conventions we associate with a GUI today, the majority of credit would have to go to Apple.
Think that sums it up nicely
If you want I can point you in the direction of a website which will give you this information and a lot more
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