Mac or PC

[PaulR]

I've used Macs for years.

My wife showed no interest in them at all preferring her Dell. I got all of the usual reasons - software she uses wouldn't work, they look pretty but are too expensive etc. etc.

I bought her a Macbook (good excuse to buy myself a new Macbook Pro at the same time). In 1/2 day she was telling me how wonderful it was and did I know it could this or this?

Her only criticism? Why didn't I explain how good they were years ago ...grrrrr.....

Paul.

[rawknemokid]

well regardless of which one is better all around,
i would take a Mac with Final cut any day over this windows system with Avid. ive done work on both and i much prefer the Final cut interface and operations. Avid is good but very quirky. one minute it works.. the next its crappin out.


MAC!!!!

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by PaulR

I've used Macs for years.

My wife showed no interest in them at all preferring her Dell. I got all of the usual reasons - software she uses wouldn't work, they look pretty but are too expensive etc. etc.

I bought her a Macbook (good excuse to buy myself a new Macbook Pro at the same time). In 1/2 day she was telling me how wonderful it was and did I know it could this or this?

Her only criticism? Why didn't I explain how good they were years ago ...grrrrr.....

Paul.

Paul - I had exactly the same thing with my girlfriend (although I couldn't afford to buy her a new MacBook! she got a hand me down ) I was waiting for all the how to questions - but they never came.
I have also managed to convert both my sisters and a few of my friends
World domination will be ours soon

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by rawknemokid

well regardless of which one is better all around,
i would take a Mac with Final cut any day over this windows system with Avid. ive done work on both and i much prefer the Final cut interface and operations. Avid is good but very quirky. one minute it works.. the next its crappin out.


MAC!!!!

Final cut pro - is THE best video editing software out there. And you know why? Because its made by Apple
Just need them to produce something to rival Photoshop, illustrator, InDesign/Quark now, then I will be a happy man

[badgers_nadgers]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

T@ badgers_nadgers : I've seen Apple users just give up and make repeated moves to the next great Apple platform. There's no denying that they have suffered a great deal of self-incompatibility. Even in one of the key areas, music, people have had big troubles caused by all the migrations (it went as far as Digidesign recommending PCs...). I guess you could keep some of it sort of running by jumping through hoops, spending more cash or just being a hardened in the know fan.

Knew I'd forgotten something! You're right there, music has been difficult and the hardware manufacturers really seem to struggle writing drivers for OSX. Strange really, as everyone else can do it!

That said, if something is a production tool, I'm loathe to upgrade it. We have a mac here running a RIP which is eight years old and running OS9. It's a RIP, and it does the job we bought it for, so there's no need to upgrade it.

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

Knew I'd forgotten something! You're right there, music has been difficult and the hardware manufacturers really seem to struggle writing drivers for OSX. Strange really, as everyone else can do it!

That said, if something is a production tool, I'm loathe to upgrade it. We have a mac here running a RIP which is eight years old and running OS9. It's a RIP, and it does the job we bought it for, so there's no need to upgrade it.

If it aint broken dont fix it

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

As for the comment about Mac's having the same problems as PC's - that's just wrong

Considering this comment seems aimed at one of my earlier comments, it would be rude not to reply.

It isn't wrong, fundamentally the only difference between an Apple computer and any other computer is the Operating System that runs on it.

There is no this is better than that, there is the right tool for the job, that is all, in some cases this will be a Microsoft centric approach, in others Apple or another *NIX derivative.

Your goals, be they personal or business, define the software you want to use, the software can in some cases define the OS you utilise and so on and so forth.

That's all there is.

End of discussion.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by GhostyDog

End of discussion.

Nice one GD.

[Alfa Vincent]

ok but where is your argument for the hundreds of thousands of viruses spyware adware trojans etc.... A pc suffers from these where as a mac doesnt! So i can say with confidence that macs dont suffer the same problems as PCs - does it matter if its software or hardware? A problem is a problem right?

[Alfa Vincent]

But fair comment other than that point ghosty!

[DrJustice]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

ok but where is your argument for the hundreds of thousands of viruses spyware adware trojans etc.... A pc suffers from these where as a mac doesnt! So i can say with confidence that macs dont suffer the same problems as PCs - does it matter if its software or hardware? A problem is a problem right?

Yeah that is annoying, and not much of an issue for Apple users. I certainly don't have an argument for malware... However, I run an anti-nastiness thingy on my machines, and there's a firewall in my router, as it should be. None of the PCs are suffering anything, I have no problem with this. That is to say, malware can easily be avoided and life on the PC platform can be smooth sailing. Again there will be plenty of suckers who will let in the nasty stuff, you can't guard against that. If more than 90% of the population ran Macs it would probably look quite different, with the criminal scum going where the people are (and no, running a *nix core is no guarantee against anything). Makes one think it might be best for you not to recruit too many Mac'ers

DJ
--

[DrJustice]

And for what it's worth, I'd recommend a Mac for the OP, jonwood79. Not least on the grounds of just wanting one. A bit like getting an Alfa then

DJ
--

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

Yeah that is annoying, and not much of an issue for Apple users. I certainly don't have an argument for malware... However, I run an anti-nastiness thingy on my machines, and there's a firewall in my router, as it should be. None of the PCs are suffering anything, I have no problem with this. That is to say, malware can easily be avoided and life on the PC platform can be smooth sailing. Again there will be plenty of suckers who will let in the nasty stuff, you can't guard against that. If more than 90% of the population ran Macs it would probably look quite different, with the criminal scum going where the people are (and no, running a *nix core is no guarantee against anything). Makes one think it might be best for you not to recruit too many Mac'ers

DJ
--

Totally agree with you DJ - we dont want everyone finding out what they are missing out on but seriously i am more than aware that the more popular they get the bigger the threat of that kind of thing. And i know you can block most of it on a pc but so many people i know seem to fall victim to it. Obviously you know what you are doing so dont suffer this fate. To be honest i kind of like the exclusivity of the mac. Each to their own and all that - life would be boring if we were all the same!

[tomfromtelford]

mac cause it's like the alfa breed :-)

Go for it

[DrJustice]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

Each to their own and all that - life would be boring if we were all the same!

Absolutely! Enjoy your Macs, and I commend you for the enthusiasm.

DJ
--

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

Absolutely! Enjoy your Macs, and I commend you for the enthusiasm.

DJ
--

likewise DJ - 3 passions in my life (if my girlfriend is reading this its 4 honest!) Alfas Apple and Liverpool FC! Defend them to the death

[PaulR]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

If more than 90% of the population ran Macs it would probably look quite different, with the criminal scum going where the people are (and no, running a *nix core is no guarantee against anything). Makes one think it might be best for you not to recruit too many Mac'ers

DJ
--

Quite - but until they do us Mac'ers are happy.
Unix might be a challenge for scum but - DrJ - you make a good point.

So.............

DON"T BUY A MAC - THEY'RE CRAP.

Paul.

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by PaulR

Quite - but until they do us Mac'ers are happy.
Unix might be a challenge for scum but - DrJ - you make a good point.

So.............

DON"T BUY A MAC - THEY'RE CRAP.

Paul.

[dgrover]

Ha ha!

And as for getting Microsoft Office... Bleurrghh!!

Since changing everything over to iWork I haven't looked back. I've just produced a whole training manual and it looks the dog's danglies. The designer where I work asked where I got it done!

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by dgrover

Ha ha!

And as for getting Microsoft Office... Bleurrghh!!

Since changing everything over to iWork I haven't looked back. I've just produced a whole training manual and it looks the dog's danglies. The designer where I work asked where I got it done!

nice one DG but dont go putting us designers out of work!

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

ok but where is your argument for the hundreds of thousands of viruses spyware adware trojans etc.... A pc suffers from these where as a mac doesnt! So i can say with confidence that macs dont suffer the same problems as PCs - does it matter if its software or hardware? A problem is a problem right?

These only affect people that run their machine logged in with an administrative user account (probably the majority of the population). Standard Windows user accounts aren't subject to the same vulnerabilities.

Apple's OS ain't all it's cracked up to be, I've lost count of the amount of machines that I've had to reimage or do an archive and reinstall on because an Apple Software Update hosed the entire system.

Oh and deleting your preferences when they get corrupt every few days is a joy, and the maintenance scripts that ship with it not cron'd up to run unless you leave the machine on 24/7 or run a utility like Onyx to force clean up of the system caches and plists and don't forget prebinding error's permissions errors in the BSD core.

"The Application Unexpectedly Quit would you like to send a report to Apple?"

Hmmm, protected memory errors are very common in OS X as are kernel panics. File system corruption on the base systems up to 10.3 because apples file system has more resource forks than anybody else's meaning that attachments in emails often got split into 2 elements and corrupted.

Apples implementation of Samba in BSD causing free elections in mixed Windows/Apple domains so even though you can 'collaborate' in mixed environments nobody on a windows domain can browse the network neighbourhood to find the apple machines to collaborate with.

Apple accelerating development and bringing out a new OS every year and a half so 3rd party developers have to play catch up and the software is screwed.

Quark 5 and 6 were diabolical
Adobe Acrobat half in Cocoa Distiller in Classic later carbonised to look like OS X but still an OS 9 app underneath which was seeded from the windows code in the first place.

Apple's OS has become very good, but up until about version 10.2.6 it was a beta release that they tested in a live global environment.

For a long time it was fair to say yeah OS X is great as long as all you use are the Apple Apps that came with it because nothing else will work properly.

My background?

I was one of these

Apple - Apple Certified Technical Coordinator 10.5

And one of these

Apple - Apple Certified Help Desk Specialist 10.4

For one of the largest marketing agencies in the North, we had a shift based artwork studio with 40 Artworkers working 16 hour days, a creative team of 12 and commercial and admin staff of roughly 60 staff, ALL running Apple Kit.

I was the one that had to fix it when it all went wrong and I worked very long hours and the majority of my time was spent rebuilding machines and trying to fix user profile corruptions. Half the software wouldn't run unless the user was logged in as an administrative user so it was incredibly difficult to maintain a clean common platform.

Don't even get me started on the servers that randomly kernel panic every few hours.

In a controlled environment I'd take XP Pro and 2K3 Server Domain over Apple kit any day. Personally, I like Apple kit, it's pretty and some of the apps are really nice to use.

Your experience is a very personal one, mine is the experience of supporting over a 100 users day in day out for 2 years in a solely Apple environment and 2 years before that in a mixed environment.

[dgrover]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

nice one DG but dont go putting us designers out of work!

I have an HND in design so technically I am kinda one! Just don't specialise in it.

[PaulR]

Hi Ghosty,

You make some relevant points. BUT most of us are just personal users so most of what you say does not apply.

Kernal panics are normally caused by installing "bad" memory sticks.

The vast majority of us - home users - find that OSX works so well.

Paul.

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by PaulR

Hi Ghosty,

You make some relevant points. BUT most of us are just personal users so most of what you say does not apply.

Kernal panics are normally caused by installing "bad" memory sticks.

The vast majority of us - home users - find that OSX works so well.

Paul.

I know what your saying but I can't stand by and and let people say OS X is a utopia of computing when it isn't.

Apologies for the rant though, it was really a bit of a rant, incensed I was...

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by GhostyDog

These only affect people that run their machine logged in with an administrative user account (probably the majority of the population). Standard Windows user accounts aren't subject to the same vulnerabilities.

Apple's OS ain't all it's cracked up to be, I've lost count of the amount of machines that I've had to reimage or do an archive and reinstall on because an Apple Software Update hosed the entire system.

Oh and deleting your preferences when they get corrupt every few days is a joy, and the maintenance scripts that ship with it not cron'd up to run unless you leave the machine on 24/7 or run a utility like Onyx to force clean up of the system caches and plists and don't forget prebinding error's permissions errors in the BSD core.

"The Application Unexpectedly Quit would you like to send a report to Apple?"

Hmmm, protected memory errors are very common in OS X as are kernel panics. File system corruption on the base systems up to 10.3 because apples file system has more resource forks than anybody else's meaning that attachments in emails often got split into 2 elements and corrupted.

Apples implementation of Samba in BSD causing free elections in mixed Windows/Apple domains so even though you can 'collaborate' in mixed environments nobody on a windows domain can browse the network neighbourhood to find the apple machines to collaborate with.

Apple accelerating development and bringing out a new OS every year and a half so 3rd party developers have to play catch up and the software is screwed.

Quark 5 and 6 were diabolical
Adobe Acrobat half in Cocoa Distiller in Classic later carbonised to look like OS X but still an OS 9 app underneath which was seeded from the windows code in the first place.

Apple's OS has become very good, but up until about version 10.2.6 it was a beta release that they tested in a live global environment.

For a long time it was fair to say yeah OS X is great as long as all you use are the Apple Apps that came with it because nothing else will work properly.

My background?

I was one of these

Apple - Apple Certified Technical Coordinator 10.5

And one of these

Apple - Apple Certified Help Desk Specialist 10.4

For one of the largest marketing agencies in the North, we had a shift based artwork studio with 40 Artworkers working 16 hour days, a creative team of 12 and commercial and admin staff of roughly 60 staff, ALL running Apple Kit.

I was the one that had to fix it when it all went wrong and I worked very long hours and the majority of my time was spent rebuilding machines and trying to fix user profile corruptions. Half the software wouldn't run unless the user was logged in as an administrative user so it was incredibly difficult to maintain a clean common platform.

Don't even get me started on the servers that randomly kernel panic every few hours.

In a controlled environment I'd take XP Pro and 2K3 Server Domain over Apple kit any day. Personally, I like Apple kit, it's pretty and some of the apps are really nice to use.

Your experience is a very personal one, mine is the experience of supporting over a 100 users day in day out for 2 years in a solely Apple environment and 2 years before that in a mixed environment.

Right.... but your answer to my questions about viruses/ adware/ trojans/ spyware? you haven't addressed that at all
All I am stating is that MACs don't suffer those same problems as windows do? So am I correct or not. As I have said before many of my friends do suffer from adware and spyware problems on their PCs, and a few have been unlucky enough to have serious virus problems runing the whole system resulting in a low level format of the hard drive.
I work for one of the largest hospitals in the world and a loads of the equipment there is mac based (lots in the research and development side) - I am aware of some problems but yours sound slightly OTT. I am a personal user but all of the ICT staff recommend Apple. Me personally - I don't have any of the problems that you have described - where as a lot of the problems I have described my friends on their home PCs encounter often. At the hospital we are also closely connected to the 3rd largest university in the UK and a large amount of their ICT staff recommend apple also - (although it is fair to say that an equal amount love the PC platform and true Unix and Linux too) so to be honest 100 users is a very very small amount to them.
I used to encounter kernel panics when I ran bootleg copies of quark 6, other than that never had one - can't even remember the last time I did - must be way over 2 years.

As for Acrobat - you don't even need it to create or view PDF's in OSX - although I obviously do have it for creating PDF forms etc.

Not really getting your comment about Quark - I totally agree version 5 and 6 were bad bad bad - hence why I switched to Indesign. Quark 7 is ok but I still prefer InDesign. But the reason Quark was so bad was they decided to drag their feet thinking they were so big that people wouldn't upgrade to OSX if they didn't release a version for it. Again don't see what the connection is here as I could obviously name several applications that are total crap on the PC
Again with email - I have never experienced any of this and am not aware of anyone else experiencing this. Not saying it didn't happen but just saying that I have no experience of it and this is the first I have heard of it.
As for the X serve - I have always been under the impression that they are a very robust system - but again I am not the person to be arguing this.
Never had a software update that has caused me any problems - but I never do one as soon as its out, I usually give it a few weeks.
And deleting preferences??? Are we harking back to OS9 here? Lots of this info you are putting forward seems to be based upon old systems. And I doubt you want to get started on windows 95 etc...

Never had a problem with software not running on an updated OS since the first release of OSX until we got to 10.5 - and I believe there was less software incompatibility issues than there was with Vista and 3rd party applications.

I also believe the maintenance scripts can be set to run when you want - and for people who can't deal with this then can just download c0cktail or macjanitor or a similar programme and then its as simple as 123.

But this tread really is about home use! And I still think for a home user who wants something pleasing on the eye and that is simple to use and works - the MAC is the one. That's my opinion as I have already said we are all different thank god or this would be a very boring world

Answers on my original question about PC users suffering spyware etc are welcome - if its useful knowledge I could even pass it on to my PC friends who seem to suffer from it