Mac or PC

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by Dibby

To be honest I haven't seen a single Mac in the aerospace, construction or utilites engineering sectors, all the drawings have to be in AutoCAD/ Catia/ Pro E. Documents have to be in Word or pdf formats, spreadsheets in Excel, engineering industry standard software is all built around Microsoft.

Apples have their place, just not in engineering, great if you want to make music or pictures or develop flashy graphics, good for the home user because they work without going wrong

Obviously Word, Excel and Acrobat professional are apple native too - there are some CAD applications for the apple but I will admit they are a bit crude. However loads of scientific and medical work is carried out on Apples everyday. And 3D rendering of different simulators and concepts are often produced on the apple format. Not just the Disney films you know

[Hammered]

This topic makes me laugh... The amount of flaming that goes on when someone raises this issue is unbelievable...
I see this forum is not short of the typical mac-heads... Won't have a thing mentioned about anything bad which others have either had or seen... blinkered vision...

Most people always bleat on about PC's being bad and always having faults with them. If you do, then you can't have installed something correctly. I've used both, and while Mac's are OK but they are not perfect by any means and the latest OS is proof of that (before anyone starts flaming, just check out the web first before you do anything), yes there have been problems. But I'm sure they'll be sorted out. Price wise I think they are vastly overpriced for what they are and most people with more money than sense buy them just for the looks. The hardware involved in the mac's is standard stuff, nothing different then you can get in a PC. They have recently been exposed for stating that a media box they sell has a server standard HDD in it, yet when it was opened up, there was just a normal everyday HDD there. Mac's are still pretty much a niche market in the UK for them and they are milking us for it!
PC's although many people complain about them crashing, apps not working correctly it's usually down to the fact that people mess about and cause just as many problems as a faulty piece of hardware would do. Then proceed to blame the computer for the fault... If gaming's your thing then forget about Mac's a PC would beat a mac hands down (and again before anyone starts, if mac's were as good, then more people would buy them). I personally support mac's and PC's at work and there are just about as meny problems on both types. At home I use a PC, mainly seeing as I game quite a bit as well... Would I buy a mac for at home as well... the answer is NO! Simply because for a couple hundred quid less I can get a decent enough PC which would do exactly the same stuff as the mac would do, and it would mean that I'd be able to upgrade it for less money as well...

JMHO...

Now watch the flaming start...

[zulu ferret]

As we have a few computer 'buffs' on AO, quick question while I remember. AOL, is my provider, but the stupid thing is, I have real trouble getting into AOL where my e'mails are, but it goes into Firefox with no difficulty whatsoever. A snarled up problem with AOL, do you think? Cheers. Using XP, AOL9, because AOL VR, just will not work!

[Dibby]

There's no need for flaming, it's nice to have a decent debate about the pros and cons of PCs and Macs with a bit of tongue-in-cheek ribbing thrown in.

Each have their place and it depends on what you want from a computer whether people buy a Mac or a PC

[zulu ferret]

Spoke to soon! AOL keeps popping up and messing with Firefox, now, so I'm off I guess for a long chat with India, I guess, on the old 'dog and bone' See you laters.:

[Hammered]

Originally Posted by zulu ferret

As we have a few computer 'buffs' on AO, quick question while I remember. AOL, is my provider, but the stupid thing is, I have real trouble getting into AOL where my e'mails are, but it goes into Firefox with no difficulty whatsoever. A snarled up problem with AOL, do you think? Cheers. Using XP, AOL9, because AOL VR, just will not work!

Your problem is AOL

Probably one of the worst ISP's in the country...

[GTLeigh]

Originally Posted by Dibby

There's no need for flaming, it's nice to have a decent debate about the pros and cons of PCs and Macs with a bit of tongue-in-cheek ribbing thrown in.

Each have their place and it depends on what you want from a computer whether people buy a Mac or a PC

Too right Dibby, its horses for courses. I use a iMac at home, at my office we have an SBS 2003 server, the other 5 users use PC workstations with our windows property management software, diary, email etc but I have a Mac mini connected to the SBS werver and use parallels for the prop mgt software, diary, sage and thats about it every thing else is on the Mac, so i guess you could say i have the best of both platforms.

[Dibby]

Originally Posted by Hammered

Your problem is AOL

Probably one of the worst ISP's in the country...

Yep, I'd look at AOL being the problem rather than something on your end. Restart the computer and modem and give them a bell.

Good luck with the Indians Zulu!

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by Hammered

This topic makes me laugh... The amount of flaming that goes on when someone raises this issue is unbelievable...
I see this forum is not short of the typical mac-heads... Won't have a thing mentioned about anything bad which others have either had or seen... blinkered vision...

Most people always bleat on about PC's being bad and always having faults with them. If you do, then you can't have installed something correctly. I've used both, and while Mac's are OK but they are not perfect by any means and the latest OS is proof of that (before anyone starts flaming, just check out the web first before you do anything), yes there have been problems. But I'm sure they'll be sorted out. Price wise I think they are vastly overpriced for what they are and most people with more money than sense buy them just for the looks. The hardware involved in the mac's is standard stuff, nothing different then you can get in a PC. They have recently been exposed for stating that a media box they sell has a server standard HDD in it, yet when it was opened up, there was just a normal everyday HDD there. Mac's are still pretty much a niche market in the UK for them and they are milking us for it!
PC's although many people complain about them crashing, apps not working correctly it's usually down to the fact that people mess about and cause just as many problems as a faulty piece of hardware would do. Then proceed to blame the computer for the fault... If gaming's your thing then forget about Mac's a PC would beat a mac hands down (and again before anyone starts, if mac's were as good, then more people would buy them). I personally support mac's and PC's at work and there are just about as meny problems on both types. At home I use a PC, mainly seeing as I game quite a bit as well... Would I buy a mac for at home as well... the answer is NO! Simply because for a couple hundred quid less I can get a decent enough PC which would do exactly the same stuff as the mac would do, and it would mean that I'd be able to upgrade it for less money as well...

JMHO...

Now watch the flaming start...

Here it comes......

The latest version of OSx is almost there - I will agree that it has had its problems. But what about the 100,000+ viruses on the PC platform - now tell me how many or on the Mac platform> It may well be to do with the fact that more people hate Microsoft but for whatever reason this is still not a good thing.
As for a PC working just as well they simply don't you can take the apple out of the box and away you go hardly no configuring etc...
As for the gaming we could start a new thread about why bother with a PC when you can have an Xbox (one of the few microsoft products I like) or a PS3. People dont buy the Mac for gaming because there are not as many games for them and people usually stick with what they know. I think it is true that the PC is better for gaming - but thats not really my thing so I wont comment on that.
Like you say people mess about with the PC - is this just because they can or because they feel they have to just to get the best out of it?
Design wise the Mac (in any guise) is way better than any PC. I still feel the build quality it better too. I would happily pay more for something that gives me greater pleasure - hence me owning an Alfa and not a Ford.
I will accept anything bad said about the Mac.... If I agree with it
Just as a demonstration of how dumb Microsoft/PCs are - they are the only bit of equipment I know of that you click on "start" to tuen it off

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by Hammered

Your problem is AOL

Probably one of the worst ISP's in the country...

Something we all agree on there

[Laptop_Matt]

I'm not going to get into the Mac v PC argument 'again' lol,

but my theory is that you pay for what you get with computers;

If you pay £200 for a new pc system it will obviously cause you more problems than a £1000 apple system.

Im speaking from a 'build your own' point of view but more you pay for hardware componants generally the better quilty they are and the longer they will last.

Makes me laugh when i think back to when i worked in a computer shop and we used cheapo Asrock motherboards & i was installing one once and the northbridge actually cought fire and burnt a hole straight through the board.

I'd always say build your own pc desktop system and that way you know exactly what is in it. If you buy one ready built it will be full of cheap components.

people are always comparing cheap computers to expensive high end Mac's , of course the pc will come off worse. Its like comparing a £9,000 Kia to a £35,0000 Mercedes. If the comparison was made between a good quality computer and the equivalent price\spec Mac i doubt there would be much in it reliability wise.

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by Laptop_Matt

I'm not going to get into the Mac v PC argument 'again' lol,

but my theory is that you pay for what you get with computers;

If you pay £200 for a new pc system it will obviously cause you more problems than a £1000 apple system.

Im speaking from a 'build your own' point of view but more you pay for hardware componants generally the better quilty they are and the longer they will last.

Makes me laugh when i think back to when i worked in a computer shop and we used cheapo Asrock motherboards & i was installing one once and the northbridge actually cought fire and burnt a hole straight through the board.

I'd always say build your own pc desktop system and that way you know exactly what is in it. If you buy one ready built it will be full of cheap components.

people are always comparing cheap computers to expensive high end Mac's , of course the pc will come off worse. Its like comparing a £9,000 Kia to a £35,0000 Mercedes. If the comparison was made between a good quality computer and the equivalent price\spec Mac i doubt there would be much in it reliability wise.

Apart from the vastly superior operating system!

Stir: Stir: Stir

[Dibby]

Originally Posted by Laptop_Matt

I'd always say build your own pc desktop system and that way you know exactly what is in it. If you buy one ready built it will be full of cheap components.

Too right!

PC World budget deals give us a nice big flashy Pentium dual-core logo and 2-gig of RAM adverts. They tell us how much memory there is but how fast is it? How much cache memory has the pocessor got? What spec is the motherboard? The graphics? How fast does the hard-drive spin? What speed does the data get in and out of the hard drive? These things are crammed full of budget spec components, bigger isn't always better. People should ask more questions to understand what they're spending their money on when we see these adverts rather that going for the cheapest price tag on the tellybox.

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

Stir: Stir: Stir

Copyright Dibby!

[DrJustice]

Be a Mac evangelist if you wish folks, but this constant going on about PC's needing care all day to fix drivers, constanly crashing etc., whereas Macs can't fail is just wrong. On the two PCs that I use daily I haven't had to touch anything. They just work. My previous laptop from 2001 is still going strong. My other machines which i don't use so often also just works. Of course you have lots of clueless bods sitting there filling up their PCs with all kinds of strange stuff which causes a mess in the end. Based on the (expensive) problems that I have observed my Mac running friends deal with, the grass just isn't greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm a computer engineer, designing and developing embedded systems (and desktop/server software), or in other words I couldn't get 2p worth out of a Mac anyway. So not much of a choice for me, I need the tools to get the job done - oh, and I get to play the games as well

Buying a personal computer should be based on what software you want to run and what boxes your friends (or support personnel to be) have.

DJ
--

[badgers_nadgers]

Originally Posted by Dibby

Macs are a lot of money for the hardware you get in the case, a bigger %age of the £'s go on product design and less on performance

This is actually a fallacy. Macs are the same price or cheaper when compared like for like. They are more expensive because they don't make a budget machine.

Originally Posted by Dibby

The new version of the Apple OSX is rumoured to be as buggy as Windows Vista.

Well it aint.

Originally Posted by Dibby

Remember if something goes pop after the warranty runs out, you could be in for expensive repairs being tied own to Apple proprietary parts. They hardly ever go wrong but when they do they're a lot more of a nightmare than a PC.

Apart from the motherboard, most of the parts are standard PC parts and easily and cheaply available. Also, I'd consider buying from John Lewis as they have a two year warranty.

Originally Posted by Dibby

If you're looking for stability, performance, price, ease of use and willing to learn a new operating system, but not bothered with looks, a PC with Linux Ubuntu installed is worth looking into.

Having just installed Ubuntu on my PC, I have to say that linux is nowhere near Windows or Mac OS for ease of use. I originally installed it to run an FTP server, but the only one I could find had to be built from a load of files with some command line stuff. Trying to get bbc radio working proved such a nightmare that I just gave up. Shame, because it was a really nice looking OS and my machine was a lot more snappy running it.

Originally Posted by Dibby

If you want something easy to use, looks good, not worried about performance-per-pound, go for an Apple.

Other than the performance statement, I'd agree with you.

[Alfa Vincent]

badgers_nadgers - you should change your name to 'the dogs bo***cks' thats the most sense I have heard on here all day

[DrJustice]

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

Apart from the motherboard, most of the parts are standard PC parts and easily and cheaply available. Also, I'd consider buying from John Lewis as they have a two year warranty.

That's only very recently though. Previous to that Apple went through a series of proprietary architectures. Each one completely incompatible with the previous and customers had to change everything. The Apple fans have obviously supported every version of the Mac, even though they've been so many different things. Now, at last in reality it's only about the OS. That is unless Apple decides to completely change everything again. With PC's you can still mix and match hardware and software going 20 years back.

DJ
--

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

That's only very recently though. Previous to that Apple went through a series of proprietary architectures. Each one completely incompatible with the previous and customers had to change everything. The Apple fans have obviously supported every version of the Mac, even though they've been so many different things. Now, at last in reality it's only about the OS. That is unless Apple decides to completely change everything again. With PC's you can still mix and match hardware and software going 20 years back.

DJ
--

Yep good old PCs have always allowed you to make a frankenstein of a machine

[badgers_nadgers]

Originally Posted by DrJustice

That's only very recently though. Previous to that Apple went through a series of proprietary architectures. Each one completely incompatible with the previous and customers had to change everything.

Not in my experience. When they went to PPC there was a 680x0 emulator built into the OS so the transition was pretty seamless. Similarly with the switch to Intel. When they moved to OSX, you could still run older apps under Classic. When ADB was dropped in favour of USB, there were USB-ADB converters which meant our dongles still worked. When local talk was dropped there were ethernet to local talk adaptors available – I'm still using a 16 year old Apple laser connected to my wireless router via one of these. When they dropped SCSI, they had also moved to PCI, so that you could get a PCI SCSI card. I've probably missed something out, but in my experience over the last twenty years, I've not had any problems with dropped technology.

[Alfa Vincent]

Shhhh... don't mention the Apple laser - think they were made by HP!
But with you on all other fronts!

[badgers_nadgers]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

Shhhh... don't mention the Apple laser - think they were made by HP!
But with you on all other fronts!

lol, maybe! I use toner cartridges for an HP. It was a good laser for its time. Postscript level 2 and 600 dpi. Only 4ppm though!

[DrJustice]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

Yep good old PCs have always allowed you to make a frankenstein of a machine

They always did - it's bloody brilliant innit?

@ badgers_nadgers : I've seen Apple users just give up and make repeated moves to the next great Apple platform. There's no denying that they have suffered a great deal of self-incompatibility. Even in one of the key areas, music, people have had big troubles caused by all the migrations (it went as far as Digidesign recommending PCs...). I guess you could keep some of it sort of running by jumping through hoops, spending more cash or just being a hardened in the know fan.

As I said, the grass is not likely greener on the other side of the fence, regardless of which side you start out on. It's great to have a variety of platforms, although that siuation was better in previous years.

DJ
--

[dgrover]

Originally Posted by Alfa Vincent

badgers_nadgers - you should change your name to 'the dogs bo***cks' thats the most sense I have heard on here all day

What he said!

Plus Leopard (latest OSX incarnation) is no where near as much of a drain as Vista on hardware.

I have Leopard running on a 4 year old pretty low powered G4 Powerbook and it still flies. I don't think you could say honestly that Vista hasn't caused more issues with older, lower powered machines.

As for Leopard on my MacBook Pro it is an utterly stonking OS and works trouble free and seamlessly between all Apps.

DG

PS Keynote, Pages and Numbers all open, and are capable of exporting, Powerpoint, Word and Excel files.

[Alfa Vincent]

Originally Posted by dgrover

What he said!

Plus Leopard (latest OSX incarnation) is no where near as much of a drain as Vista on hardware.

I have Leopard running on a 4 year old pretty low powered G4 Powerbook and it still flies. I don't think you could say honestly that Vista hasn't caused more issues with older, lower powered machines.

As for Leopard on my MacBook Pro it is an utterly stonking OS and works trouble free and seamlessly between all Apps.

DG

PS Keynote, Pages and Numbers all open, and are capable of exporting, Powerpoint, Word and Excel files.

Too true DG! And we even have Office 2008 (if you really want it )

[Alfa Vincent]

As they say the grass is always greener on the other side.
Just remember there is cow s**t in every field! I just find the Apple cow s**t much less smelly!