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GTB2056v JTDm 2.4 turbo (pics!)

87K views 179 replies 29 participants last post by  _Grease_Monkey_ 
#1 · (Edited)
Since the turbo upgrade topic is getting a bit long, I made a new topic.

After months of searching the internet and quite some waiting, its finally here:
My brand new JTDm 2.4 20v turbo, the awesome Garrett GTB2056v.
I'm going to build it on a 147 JTD 16v. (I still have to purchase the car as I own a 147 JTD 8v at the moment ;) )

I'm probably the first to post some detail pics of this turbo @ the i-net:
Auto part Automotive engine part Exhaust manifold Automotive super charger part

Auto part Automotive starter motor Automotive super charger part Automotive engine part


Vane cartridge attached to the CHRA for less heat transfer. And of course it allows more easier clocking of the turbine housing.
Auto part Rotor Automotive alternator


Here you can see the vanes surrounding the turbine wheel:
Auto part Rotor Clutch Clutch part Automotive alternator


And here next to the OEM 16v turbo:
Auto part Automotive engine part Automotive super charger part Engine


Turbine side, here it's clearly the GTB outside turbine dimensions are not dramatically big. It's quite a bit smaller than the GT2256v (175hp) unit. But yet much more potent. :D
Auto part Tool accessory Automotive starter motor Automotive super charger part Machine


And of course some wheel specs:
Compressor ind./exd. : 39.6mm/56mm (similair to GT2256v)
Turbine exd./ind. : 43mm/47mm

Can't wait to get this one installed... I'm aiming for 250 HP and 450 Nm :cool:
 
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#56 · (Edited)
Yep, but you can guess it if you know your ECU torque limiter values, AFR and real torque curve values.

So I guess you are somewhere around 175 HP at the moment... But I'm sure there's more to gain if you up the turbo pressure to 2.8 bar abs or so.
Could be, that I did't count increased inner losses with the increasing revs.
 
#59 · (Edited)
2,5bar for 70mg/i upto 2.875bar for 90mg/i

P.S. Regarding to cc/mg question, EDC15 techdoc from Bosch (Funktionsbeschreibung EDC15+ P12 - VG2) states that all injection qty values used in ECU are in mg/stroke units. And the same iq numbers I'm requesting in ECU I'm also reading in FES. So I would really wonder if they are converted into cc.
 
#60 ·
Btw. reached injection of 99mg/i with stock CF3 8V injectors. Still wonder how far will be fuel pump capable to deliver sufficient flow (reached @3250rpm).
 
#62 ·
Didn't log it, but requested was 1590 bar.
 
#65 ·
I think it is not "right way" to guess power numbers from fuel... It depends heavily on how much backpressure the turbo is making in this situation.

Yan-ko with 3 bars and 1570mg/inj it looks like you still have over 90% VE @3200rpm (I presumed that intake temperature was not over 20°C since it is very cold outside at the moment), thats very good IMO...
 
#66 ·
@ JS KTD, where did you buy the GTB2056V from? Cost? As far as im aware this is the turbo on the 210bhp brera 2.4..... My car has the Borg Warner turbo (200bhp). So theoretically i should be able to buy and fit this without any further modifications (i already have remapped to 250bhp)......
 
#67 ·
#68 ·
Thanks for the link! Before i rush ahead and buy this, doesnt the 200bhp 2.4 have a completely different ecu (in hardware terms?) i.e is it simply a case of remapping the current ecu? Won't the 2 engine specs be different? Sorry for so many questions, its just its quite a lot of money..... Do you know of anyone who can do this/has done this?
 
#69 ·
Just PM'ed you.

Probably it will work fine if you swap the units.

Mechanically it's plug and play.
Both turboes are vacuum operated and since the ECU controls it with a desired-actual pressure strategy, differences will be compensated.

But, of course the only way to take full benefit of the turbo is having your ECU remapped again.
 
#71 ·
About those fuel numbers, in Alfa ECUs they are actually mm^3, not mg.
So 90 mm^3 equals about 76 mg which is about 400Nm on a 4-cyl engine at 2000-2500 rpm.

VAG group ECUs are one of the few to actually have mg as fuel unit.

Which diagnostic software/interohase are you guys useing? Has anyone experience of Bosch KTS, how well it shows fueling and boost values?
 
#74 ·
Welcome to this forum. :)

I have pointed the above out several times, the mg/power ratio and the lambda just doesn't make sense if it is in mg.

I've always used Alfadiag and that nicely logs in cc/stroke. Pity I have a EDC16C39 now that isn't supported by Alfadiag (only EDC16C8).
 
#75 ·
Then the funny thing is, that all AFR ratio related stuffs there in ECU are probably running at 17.86 instead of 15.
 
#79 ·
The 2.0ts flywheel fit on the 1.9 JTS, combine that with a GTA clutch and you should be fine.
All you have to do is get the bolt patters on the flywheel changed so that the GTA pressure plate will fit
 
#80 ·
JS JTD, thanks! You got nice pics of the GTB2056V.
Could you measure the diameter of the bowl around the turbine wheel? Please take out the 'piston rings' and measure there what is the smallest diameter.
Someone would like to put larger turbine to the GTB2056V ;).

About compressor, is the wheel with separate nut or is the wheel threaded?
 
#89 ·
Thanks, I'll check this for you tommorrow.

@enkiduro:

Your turbo is mirrored compaired to the other Alfa ones.
Compressor is at the right side, in your case it's left.

I have used exactly that upper CDti 8v turbo on my 147, by cutting the turbine and rotating it 180 degrees to fit my manifold.
Welding mild steel to cast iron is no problem if the welding is done properly with high nickel content sticks.

So the other way around, Alfa turbo on your CDti should also be possible. But you need a reworked or fully custom exhaust manifold.
 
#83 ·
Hello!

First of all, I appreciate your efforts in making the 1.9 diesel engine more powerful. I want to do the same with mine.
Here is my problem: I have a 1.9 CDTi diesel engine on my Opel Astra. It is equivalent to the 1.9 JTDm that can be found on Alfa 159. My turbo is GT1949MV from Garrett. This turbo comes welded together with the exhaust manifold. Here are some photos:

Turbo1
Turbo2

From what I understand, cutting the manifold and welding the adapter for the new turbo is not an option because it will not stand for much time (two different materials that behave differently under heavy temperature changes). I am stuck in finding a solution on how to fit the new turbo. From what I understand the GTB2056V is the best for this 16V JTDm engine (150 HP stock). But how can I get it to fit and have no problems with it?
Opel does not have exhaust manifolds for this engine that do not come welded together with the turbo. Does Alfa have such stand alone manifolds? If they do, can you please provide the model of engine that does have such a manifold, so I can buy it and get on with the project? Some photos to compare to my turbo would be great (sometimes they move some screws around between opel and alfa or saab and when you try to fit it it doesn't...).

Another question: what is the difference between GTB2056V and 2056VK? I found at a very good price one new GTB2056V (no "K" I'm afraid :) ) - is it any good?

At the moment I have EDS software that gives me 201 HP and 433 Nm of torque. I aim at about 230 - 240 HP with the new turbo, new FMIC and 63" exhaust.

If you can, please help one desperate man :cry:

Thanks a lot!

Christian
 
#84 · (Edited)
All 1.9 JTD 147/156/GT models have standalone exhaust manifold. But I'm absolutely unsure about the bolt pattern.

AFAIK "K" in GTB2056VK means version with electronicaly actuated VNT instead of vacuum one. May be you've seen either "L", which stands for water cooled CHRA.
 

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#85 ·
As yan.ko said older Alfas with JTD 16V and also JTDm 16V use seperate manifold, But there is one problem that I can see.

In Opels the turbo points upwards, and this seperate manifold points downwards. That makes a huge difference. You will probably have problems...

But cutting and welding a manifold is possible. User JS JTD did this on GT1749VM from 159... http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuni...-jtd-turbo-upgrade-options-4.html#post3377850
 
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