156 GTA Tuning

I dont understand the obsession with NA cars, esp on the gta which has a relatively slow revving lazy type V6 by the nature of its hugely oversquare configuration which leads naturally to less torque. To me a supercharger to boost torque at the lower rev range is ideal.

Originally Posted by Alexandrus

True, SuperSprint is kinda expensive, but imho you can get a very decent 320HP from the engine and still keep it NA, I higly doubt you'll need more power than that.
For me, tuning the GTA engine would mean :
-full SuperSprint exhaust
-CDA or similar(I've seen some japanese stuff that looks great and not so expensive)
-new cams
-polished intake manifolds(whatever that gives you I have no idea)
-obviously new chip program
Eventually, if you do need more power but would like to keep it NA, you can go for larger injectors, and so on, or even the larger engine capacity, 3.7 or so.

Have you got an adress for the good japanese stuff (induction kit) ?

Thanks !!

(except the carbon intake like Asso or Force G or in addition with it).

Originally Posted by ukoldschool

I dont understand the obsession with NA cars, esp on the gta which has a relatively slow revving lazy type V6 by the nature of its hugely oversquare configuration which leads naturally to less torque. To me a supercharger to boost torque at the lower rev range is ideal.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a SC in general. On the other hand there is the engineering challenge to get power out normally aspirated.

Getting with the Supersprint exhaust, the GSR induction and the relevant re-map well over 300bhp with a moderate torque increase is not too bad.

Additionally get cams done and the car gets to the limits of reasonable front wheel drive.

pics here of GSR induction

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h8...rintake012.jpg


hope this help jack75

Originally Posted by CPH

Getting with the Supersprint exhaust, the GSR induction and the relevant re-map well over 300bhp with a moderate torque increase is not too bad.

thats true, but with the price of all that kit your not far off a supercharger conversion to give you over 300. Add the cams and Id rather drive the supercharged car over the peaky NA car that by the nature of its tuning will be down on torque in comparison to the SC car.. whats that quote go again? BHP wins headlines but Torque wins races?

I'm quite surprised by the 300BHP only with an induction kit, remap et complete exhaust !! It makes 50BHP with few mods....

I was thinking remap & induction kit would give around 15-20HP, no more and an additionnal 30 just for the exhaust (manifold/cat/backbox) is a lot !

no ?

Originally Posted by jack75

I'm quite surprised by the 300BHP only with an induction kit, remap et complete exhaust !! It makes 50BHP with few mods....

I was thinking remap & induction kit would give around 15-20HP, no more and an additionnal 30 just for the exhaust (manifold/cat/backbox) is a lot !

no ?

The problem with the induction on the GTA is that it really spoils the capabilities of the 3.2. This is why even Autodelta, K&N, Pipercross and a few more gain something over ther standard system. BMC does already a bit better but is still far away from a real induction kit as it is supplied with thw wrong bits.

The mentioned induction gave an initial improvement of 12.8bhp (torque improved as well [for UKoldskool ]) before the ECU was able to adjust properly. The exhaust was fitted at a later time and gives about 21bhp as a single modification. Exhaust and induction enhance each others improvement. With a proper re-map (supplied by Chipped UK; wouldn't trust anyone else) the claimed figure was achieved enabling a proper driver to achieve a high 13 1/4mile time.

Originally Posted by CPH

The problem with the induction on the GTA is that it really spoils the capabilities of the 3.2. This is why even Autodelta, K&N, Pipercross and a few more gain something over ther standard system. BMC does already a bit better but is still far away from a real induction kit as it is supplied with thw wrong bits.

The mentioned induction gave an initial improvement of 12.8bhp (torque improved as well [for UKoldskool ]) before the ECU was able to adjust properly. The exhaust was fitted at a later time and gives about 21bhp as a single modification. Exhaust and induction enhance each others improvement. With a proper re-map (supplied by Chipped UK; wouldn't trust anyone else) the claimed figure was achieved enabling a proper driver to achieve a high 13 1/4mile time.

I believe that OEM air box in probably not the best performance item but concerning the Autodelta or force G/Asso carbon pipe, it's just a piece of carbon/kevlar replacing the resonator box, as it is still conected to the OEM airbox, I'm not sure of the gain, even with a sport filter inside the box.

BMC is certaintly different, as the K&N 57i.

On the picture of the GSR, I can't see how it's conected to the OEM airbox and MAF. Did it replaced it ?


Jack

PS : sorry for My english, I Didn't practise for a long...

Originally Posted by ukoldschool

I dont understand the obsession with NA cars, esp on the gta which has a relatively slow revving lazy type V6 by the nature of its hugely oversquare configuration which leads naturally to less torque. To me a supercharger to boost torque at the lower rev range is ideal.

Well, first of all, at least for me, NA is the best way to go. The sound is better, it doesn't have any lag or anything, and it's the most fun. It's the hardest to tune in terms of power, but that's the point in my opinion.
You can go the SC or turbo way, but then there's no chanllange at all, a bigger SC or a bigger turbo equals more power and so on. Spoils the sound, adds lag.
It's not really an obsession with NA, but for the GTA I see no better way of getting more power because you'll still be limited by the FWD. If we were talking about a RWD or AWD car, then OK, SC or turbo might be way better, but we're talking about the 3.2 V6 Busso, it sounds like an orchestra, brings joy to your heart, no point for a SC or turbo unless you want to go the cheaper way.

Here's one of the carbon airboxes the japanese make(made by Saclam, do a google for their site, they have plenty of goodies) :
http://www.e-tire.co.jp/alfa_page/su..._air-box01.jpg

It's all on this site : www.e-tire.co.jp but you'll have to translate it.

Originally Posted by jack75

I'm quite surprised by the 300BHP only with an induction kit, remap et complete exhaust !! It makes 50BHP with few mods....

I was thinking remap & induction kit would give around 15-20HP, no more and an additionnal 30 just for the exhaust (manifold/cat/backbox) is a lot !

no ?

Well yes, it seems pretty good at first look, but then consider this:
Supersprint manifolds £1295
Supersrint sports cat £680
Supersprint centre silencer £225
Supersprint rear silencer £425
+ 6 hours labour to fit the system minimum at say £50 = £300
exhaust total £2565

Induction kit £360

Remap on the rolling road est £500

total for approx 50bhp increase= about £3500

Add C&b cams to the above to increase power by another 20 hp
£1500 for the cams, £500 approx to fit (cam belt change)

So roughly £5500 for a NA 3.2 with around 320bhp....

Or of course you could have a supercharger kit fully installed for around £4000 (either novitec or AD) to give you 320 ponies

Dont forget the AD 3.7 conversion of which stage 1 (314bhp) costs £5500 and stage 2 with the bigger throtle body (328bhp) is about another £500 on top.

Regardless of whether you want NA or forced induction youll need a new clutch, bigger brakes, an LSD and coilovers to make it drivable............

I'd agree. You will need around £10-£12k to do the whole job - engine, exhaust, clutch, suspension, brakes and probably an LSD.

Having said that, with the full Autodelta 3.7 conversion package, pushing 328bhp, you will have near supercar performance - top end up to 175mph from the limited 155mph and 0-60 dropped from 6.2(ish) to around 5.2. All in, with the car purchase of say £12k for a low mileage one, and then another £15k or thereabouts, you will have an amazing 4 door saloon capable of supercar performance for under £30grand, compared to getting say a Maserati Quattroporte for £90k!!

Cheers

Per

on the other hand for £30k buy an M3 CSL.

just playing devils advocate but thats where 30k would go if I was spending it.

Yes, but it's German and soulless

OK, it's redeeming feature is RWD, but I'd still have a full hog GTA!!

Cheers

Per

in fairness a CSL is far from soulless.

Originally Posted by pablo

in fairness a CSL is far from soulless.

that's true

The CSL is a regular M3 with less seats and less sutff, but you pay more for it, how is that ?
As for the other part, if it has a soul or not, it's debatable. I don't really like the M3, but it has more soul than other expensive cars, but not anywhere near as much as an Alfa.

PS. Funny thing is the inline 6 engine was developed by Alfa, used in the 6C many many years ago, when Alfa was winning every competition, but it was made famous by BMW. Weird, huh ?

Even the sporty bsaloon type car is an ALfa thing, yet made famous again by BMW...

dont get me wrong guys I love my alfa but a CSL isnt a regular M3.

350-400bhp in a fwd car (imho) is too much to properly enjoy.

Ive been out in a CSL and the thrill was awesome. I just dont think you would get that in a 350bhp alfa.

Saying that Ive never driven a 350bhp alfa so I may be dead wrong. But even comparing my E36 M3 to my GTA Id say the M3 was a more fun car both on the road and on the track. However as an overall package I prefer the Alfa because it will be rarely tracked and on the road they are similar in performance but the alfa has better manners and is a much nicer place to be.

I think you might be suprised at how well a seriously tuned GTA can perform agaisnt a CSL (both on Type-R tyres), and the gap may not be in the direction one might have thought

Of course a seriously tuned CSL is a different matter, but the damn things cost Euro 127K over here as standard

Don't know how somebody can say a CSL is soulless they are a superb car obviously gifted with more polished finesse than an angry tuned GTA.
Watch one dance effortlessly in their natural habitat "The Ring" and you might change your mind

BTW They do sound good too!

OK, I take it back the CSL is not soulless -it does have a very nice straight 6, abd is RWD, but I still wouldn't part with 330k for one!

Per

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

I think you might be suprised at how well a seriously tuned GTA can perform agaisnt a CSL (both on Type-R tyres), and the gap may not be in the direction one might have thought

Of course a seriously tuned CSL is a different matter, but the damn things cost Euro 137000K over here

Don't know how somebody can say a CSL is soulless they are a superb car obviously gifted with more polished finesse than an angry tuned GTA.
Watch one dance effortlessly in their natural habitat "The Ring" and you might change your mind

BTW They do sound good too!

But what kind of tuning yo must have to cope with a CSL ? Supercharged ?

GTA-AM 3.7 Super is around Stg 16K (Euro 24K) for the important upgrade bits.
Euro wise would leave a cool Euro 47K for spare parts in this country

CSLs have a base price of Stg 58K in England I believe, so you get much better value over there..

its always the way when comparing our alfas to what is obviously a superior machine..... we seem to have to justify the cost on the other cars by comparing a 3 year old gta with 18k's worth of tuning to get cose to a car thats standard, then quote prices for a brand new bmw... M3 CSL's are available second hand you know

The CSL is a regular M3 with less seats and less sutff, but you pay more for it, how is that ?

I think youll find theres a fair bit more to it than that.....

I was simply comparing List prices in the post above, ignoring that you can't actually buy GTAs any more.

But to take your point on - a 3 year old CSL is Euro 95K over here..
a base 3 year old GTA plus the