Retrofitting a Q2 to an existing Alfa

I use even lower pressures 2.5 (to 2.6 max) cold as my starting point, and leave it at 2.8/2.9 warm.
I leave the rear at 2.4/2.5 cold normally and when warm increase slightly 2.6/2.7 (a max of 2.9 or so for loosening the tail like Peter said) depending on how the car is handlng, I would leave it at the low end of things for the ring though.

Some wear over the edge of the marker of the front sidewall does happen (due to hairpins) but any higher pressure and I find the fronts get too squirmey and understeery, the sidewall attrition doesn't seem heavy enough to worry about - the PS2's seem quite tough!

Yes thats their heavy duty 20mm option for the GTA, the have an 18mm one as well.

The extra 2mm makes it 52% stiffer!
From memory the effective stiffness is proportional to the diameter to the power of 4!!

A handy effective stiffness chart is on page 4 of the Whiteline catalog.

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by AB156V6

On the website of Eibach it states literally that it fits all 147's ! (read: including the GTA)

If whiteline have 20mm that's even thicker then the Eibach (18mm)

Originally Posted by Peter K

Cheers Arnoudt, advise welcomed! I'll definitely try and drop the Bar's next time im there.. I did have the intention of experimenting wil lower pressure, but since im not yet so quick through the faster sections, i should probably go for a compromise.. maybe 2.4 rear and 2.6m front (cold) ?

In cold I start: 2.3 front 2.0 rear. Usually after 1 lap (medium outside temperature) front is already at 2.6/2.7 rear 2.2/2.3. After another lap you can add about 0.2 extra. Just take care to not go full-throttle first corners, as the tyres till need to warm up (which they will do quickly given the low pressure)

Particularly in the rain or when it's cold getting some temperature in the rear tyres is difficult. With some extra precaution the first round you can start even lower at 1.8 at the rear.

Tyre pressure is something to test: what do you like, some people prefer more pressure others don't. Try what you like
2.35 rear works well for me at the back: a lot of grip (Robert tested this week (in my 156) and liked it too). Also important: allignment of the wheels obviouly. Differs a lot per person (what they like), I drive with (+) 12 minutes at the front and (+) 16 at the back. Quite conservative settings, nice for the Ring, not so good for tracks like Zolder (there I would go -12 to 16 (wet/dry) at the front and zero at the back)
http://www.extreme-machines.nl/images/faq/alignment.gif

With the Q2 (read: more grip) I am going to try at 2.8/2.9 at the front to see if I still have enough grip on the track.

I like all the testing/trying a lot: the differences are bigger then peopel often think, what is does to your car. As said, Robert was amazed by the difference between his GTA and my 156.

ah...you are talking non.LSD setup. I got the (i suspect) more agressive Quaiffe LSD on the blue car, and i dont think my current choice of tires will survive very long at 2.3 bar at the front.

I gotta save some money somewhere, so i've switched to "Star Performer UHP"... a real low cost tyre, but surprisingly good for light track use, especially in the wet. Planning to bring a set of Toyo 888 for good weather, and the El-Cheapo's in case of rain/damp.

You guys seem to experiment a lot with tyres on the track aswell. I have not much track experience yet, did you try the Pirelli Corsa type of tyres? I bought last week set of Bridgestone Potenzas for my bella, and was thinking about the Pirelli Corsa at first but they cost a fortune.


cheers

The Pirelli p-zero corsas are a semi-competiton type-R tyre, so a pretty serious tyre comapred to even PS2's etc.They would have a lot more grip but not be as good as an all round tyre.
Apparently they are better than Pilot Sport cups for cold damp conditions, and Pilot Sport cups better for dry.

These would be overkill for normal road use since any type-r tyre will wear quicker because of the soft compound.

I definitely would not recommend type-r tyres for your first few track days, any mistakes you make will be much much harder to catch and it best to get some practice at catching slides with road tyres.
When a type-R tyre lets go suddenly the standard dampers even on a GTA are crying out for mercy and you need to be very smooth not to provoke a tank-slapper..

I highly recommend PS2's for track use in any conditions, and they are a superlative long wearing road tyre.

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

The Pirelli p-zero corsas are a semi-competiton type-R tyre, so a pretty serious tyre comapred to even PS2's etc.They would have a lot more grip but not be as good as an all round tyre.
Apparently they are better than Pilot Sport cups for cold damp conditions, and Pilot Sport cups better for dry.

These would be overkill for normal road use since any type-r tyre will wear quicker because of the soft compound.

I definitely would not recommend type-r tyres for your first few track days, any mistakes you make will be much much harder to catch and it best to get some practice at catching slides with road tyres.
When a type-R tyre lets go suddenly the standard dampers even on a GTA are crying out for mercy and you need to be very smooth not to provoke a tank-slapper..

I highly recommend PS2's for track use in any conditions, and they are a superlative long wearing road tyre.

Cheers,
TB

Totally agree. Waste of money too. Toyo T1R for example are way cheeper and work very well too (Robert used them on his 147GTA past season on the Ring: whole season with 1 set of tyres. As he drives smooth that is possible, people who go in to corners too fast etc will wear them out more quickly)

@Peter: the 2.3 is only when cold/start. Within the first lap of Ring they are already at 2.6 to 2.7 Just have to drive relaxed till past hatzenbach/hocheichen. The first round on the Ring I always do very relaxed: testing the track and the car ! You never know where the sand, water, mudd, car parts, motorcycles, ... are laying on the track; that first lap is very nice to warm up the tyres too (ie: 2 for the price of 1 )

Originally Posted by selcuk

You guys seem to experiment a lot with tyres on the track aswell. I have not much track experience yet, did you try the Pirelli Corsa type of tyres? I bought last week set of Bridgestone Potenzas for my bella, and was thinking about the Pirelli Corsa at first but they cost a fortune.


cheers

If you're going to buy some pirelli semi-slicks, I'd advise to go to Pzero-C not the corsa's. The C's have much stiffer sidewall, and rubber that stays in tact also on tracks with some nasty tarmac
They look old-fashioned (so I have been told ) compared to other tyres, but looks (imo...) are not important on a tyre: grip is what you want

As trailbraker already mentioned: if you're not a regular trackday visitor, stick with street tyres for the moment

Alright, you've convinced me! Will try to start at very low tire pressure next time on the Ring, and then take it from there. (as opposed to starting high and deflating)

Just need a good accurate tire gauge.. the one i got is in a quality well below par..

@TB would you have one you could bring to the Course?

@Peter: are you coming to the Ring beforehand ? If so let Robert and me know, we can start to try/test so that you can start the training fully-set !

Originally Posted by zbenio

what diameter is OEM bar for gta?

Good question, don't know. You'd have to assume it was thinner than 18mm. Unless... maybe that explains alfisti's reluctance to sell it for the GTA, because it's the same size The whiteline would still be uprated because of the adjustability it offers.

Anyway, found a little more info on the whiteline.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/ins...365_BAR18Z.pdf

Yes, I have a very accurate one.

Originally Posted by Peter K

Just need a good accurate tire gauge.. the one i got is in a quality well below par..

@TB would you have one you could bring to the Course?

What a brilliant thread hijack @ PK, TB and AB

Just to add my bit - I run my tyres on 2.6 cold front and rear

and Peter, I do not need the DS 3000, they have arrived

ok Vamos, no problem.

@AB.. i really want to try and squeeze in a day or two at the Ring sometime this month. I just ordered R888's so if the weather looks good, i might stick them on and head south at short notice.. Also want to test the brakes with uprated disks and pads.. I was never quite happy with the brakes on the blue car. (stock 330 GTA's) Would be great if you guys were there.. could definitely use your advice.

@Vamos: sorry for the (unintentional) hijack...

@Peter: some testing is always good And the beer afterwards even better
Will be on the Ring this week-end. Let's see what the Q2 does under full load

ok, so has anyone fitted a Q2 diff to a 10v 2.4 jtd??? do they fit???

need to know, as i have already bought one!!

10v JTD should be fine as it is the same gearbox as the V6 & 1.9JTD.

20v JTD use a different gearbox.

phew!! thanks David!!!

Hi guys :-)

Sorry but my English is not very good....

I just finish with Q2 on 164 Super V6 TB '95

All fit perfect! And there is no need of any mods!
I have a many pictures but I need 1-2 days to resize and upload it to my server /I forgot memory card adapter in the office )

Tommorow I will make some test to see what is the difference

I can now confirm that the Q2 also works well on track
Could have a bit more bite (as to be expected; that's where the T2R comes in ), but works well. Can step on the gas in the middle of the corner, obviously careful not just flat out, without resulting in much understeer.

Good

Originally Posted by Caldo Bollente

Good question, don't know. You'd have to assume it was thinner than 18mm. Unless... maybe that explains alfisti's reluctance to sell it for the GTA, because it's the same size The whiteline would still be uprated because of the adjustability it offers.

Originally Posted by zbenio

what diameter is OEM bar for gta?

I measured oem bars on my gta, front is 24mm, rear is 18mm.
Eibach offers 26mm/18mm so the rear bar has the same diameter, maybe it is made from stiffer material?
If whiteline rear bar is 20mm that's make sense.