Retrofitting a Q2 to an existing Alfa

After some more testing confirms what I've said really, with traction control on, if taking corners well and not pushing too far past the limit of grip inducing wheelspin the diff does a great job with no interference, just digs the tyres into the road and grips and grips, feels great, for what it does it's the best value mod I have done. Still, the ASR button (renamed ARS, for when you want to behave like one) has now found a use as it was only gathering dust before. Just need some rain to come along to see how things are in the wet.

Drove on some damp and greasy roads, the results were not that much different to having the standard diff to me, no doubt if there is any grip to be had that it will take advantage of what is available. The main thing is that where the ARS acts as a foe when conditions are good restricting you from properly powering through a corner, it is definitely a welcomed assistant on mixed slippery surfaces and any modulation it does make on these is less abrupt. Hopefully my next test will be "how long will a Q2 differential survive after a 3.8 conversion?" maybe not not in the immediate future at least

Were you getting any torque steer in the wet Caldo?

When there was very little grip and it was just understeering I was more focused on staying on the road then paying attention to torque steer to be honest. On the occasion I did notice on less wet probably tighter bends where you could tell the diff was doing its job that there was kind of oversteer, not the back stepping out, but finding myself having to purposely steer back straight again after the corner which is a new one to me, would that be defined as torque steer or the opposite of?

In general though from taking off to cornering you can still feel it but where before it was white knuckles is now more of a pinch of the wheel, was laughed at by a passenger who noticed me maneuvering with two fingers and thumb.

Its probably you were just getting away with applying too much lock on cornering before, and the diff is now managing to convert some of your "requested" input into cornering input.
With the open diff under power the line would never really tighten so your possible "error" before would never have been noticed.

Don't worry we all do it

When you watch a race driver drive a FWD car fast (not showy) they apply minimal steering inputs.

Originally Posted by Caldo Bollente

On the occasion I did notice on less wet probably tighter bends where you could tell the diff was doing its job that there was kind of oversteer, not the back stepping out, but finding myself having to purposely steer back straight again after the corner which is a new one to me, would that be defined as torque steer or the opposite of?

Re the steering input to exit a corner, that was actually the biggest change with the Quaife LSD in my old Sud. When you applied the throttle when there was lock on it would actually pull the steering further onto lock as opposed to self centering. With no power-steering and race slicks it was quite an effort. But with power-steering and road tyres it should be easy enough but a bit weird to start with.

Yeah you could be on to something there I am using the steering wheel a lot more now mainly because it is allowing me to do so, should really try to hone getting the fastest out of it as opposed to creating as much G as possible

The VDC could be another contributing factor.

Today we bought a Q2 diff. and will be trying to fit it on 164 2.0 V6 turbo.

Originally Posted by Caldo Bollente

Yeah you could be on to something there I am using the steering wheel a lot more now mainly because it is allowing me to do so, should really try to hone getting the fastest out of it as opposed to creating as much G as possible

The VDC could be another contributing factor.

Or: make the rear more stiff, so it becomes a bit more oversteered

The Q2 in my 3.0 156 works nicely too, for (sporty) street use. When pushing it the T2R version will be more appropriate probably But: for the money the Q2 is a very nice addition to the car !

"T2R" - Quest-ce Que Cest?

Originally Posted by AB156V6

Or: make the rear more stiff, so it becomes a bit more oversteered

The Q2 in my 3.0 156 works nicely too, for (sporty) street use. When pushing it the T2R version will be more appropriate probably But: for the money the Q2 is a very nice addition to the car !

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

"T2R" - Quest-ce Que Cest?

Torsen has 2 version of the T2:
- T2 => Q2
- T2R (race useage version)

Difference is the driving comfort (the way the diff comes in and how much torque is distributed; this makes it less comfortable for street use so I'm quite OK with the Q2. I can not confirm/prove it (as I have not had the Quaife in my Alfa ) but I have the feeling the Quaife is in between the T2 and the T2R. The comparison cars did not have the torque my 156 has so it's a bit of a guess, but the Q2 is very 'comfi')

Robert has now tested it for himself (in my 156), and was quite pleased with it.

Originally Posted by AB156V6

Or: make the rear more stiff, so it becomes a bit more oversteered

Sounds good to me! Only tried going softer with it so far, now running a slightly softer everyday setting than it was, without being too soft (need a certain amount of firmness at the front) at around 1/4 stiffness all round with a smidge less at the back.

Time to whack it up to "go-kart mode" 1/2 front 3/4 back, shame the roads around here won't let me have that on for most of the time.

Fitting a Q2 to my Novitec GTA in the very near future.

Originally Posted by Caldo Bollente

Sounds good to me! Only tried going softer with it so far, now running a slightly softer everyday setting than it was, without being too soft (need a certain amount of firmness at the front) at around 1/4 stiffness all round with a smidge less at the back.

Time to whack it up to "go-kart mode" 1/2 front 3/4 back, shame the roads around here won't let me have that on for most of the time.

If you have the original anti-roll bar at the front, only place a sport version at the back and leave the front original (Eibach for example).

@Peter: You won't regret it fro the money it costs

Looked into this before which came to no real conclusion, so gave up, doesn't seem to be many options in the UK/Europe, outside of Japan. The Eibach bar only seems to be available as part of a kit, front and rear arbs, like here

http://www.gazzella.cc/cart.php?targ...ategory_id=454

then when what appears to be the same kit is offered separately they say not for the GTA(?).

http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styli...ars::3233.html

Maybe having a custom one made up is a possibility, can't be that difficult or expensive for that matter to make a bar.

Check out www.whiteline.com.au for what look like superb rear anti roll bar kits for the 147 GTA.
They have 18 and 20mm diammeter variants,plus am adjustable rose jointed droplink setup option.

Apparently in general 147 GTA ARB kits can be made to work for the 156 GTA, so I might investigate this kit for my car, with 20mm diameter rear.

Originally Posted by Caldo Bollente

Looked into this before which came to no real conclusion, so gave up, doesn't seem to be many options in the UK/Europe, outside of Japan. The Eibach bar only seems to be available as part of a kit, front and rear arbs, like here

http://www.gazzella.cc/cart.php?targ...ategory_id=454

then when what appears to be the same kit is offered separately they say not for the GTA(?).

http://shop.alfisti.net/Tuning-Styli...ars::3233.html

Maybe having a custom one made up is a possibility, can't be that difficult or expensive for that matter to make a bar.

On the website of Eibach it states literally that it fits all 147's ! (read: including the GTA)

If whiteline have 20mm that's even thicker then the Eibach (18mm)

Nice one TB! Wondered why it was linked to oz there for a second, then found the .co.uk with dealer list. Front and rear linkymajigies too.
So if keeping the original front bar maybe the less hardcore 18mm rear would be the sensible option or go for the 20mm and worst case get the adjustable front if needed, hmm... Easier with less options sometimes.

Think the next step is to see if things do actually improve further by making the rear harder, might be the diff works better by provocation from understeer. The damping's pretty spot on for me at the moment regarding steering feel at the front, comfort and minimal lurch under acceleration at the back. Have to wait till Tuesday to try this, shaping up to be a solid weekend workwise.

I too reccommend a stiffer ARB at the rear, but be careful as it can surprise you on Track. I have this setup on my blue 156 BTW.

Last time i was at the Ring i deflated the rear tyres to 2.7 bar to make them grip better. (after a couple of brown trouser moments) I dont mind the loose back end on small tracks, but on the Ring you really dont want sudden oversteer in 4th gear corners. The snap is so quick that you won't know what hit you before you already spun round.

I might be the shorter wheel base of the 147 makes it less prone to oversteer compared to the 156, but then again the margin for balance is probably also lesser then of the 156.

Originally Posted by Peter K