Insurance and remaps

[Alonzo]

I've just bought a mint 2008 1.9 JTDm 159 Lusso. It's not remapped but I'd like to get it done. The only problem is the insurance. If I remap the car the premium is double the price of an unmodified 159. I have age and NCB in my favour but it's still double. I've tried Adrian Flux but they're no better than the mainstream insurers. Direct Line are the cheapest but won't touch remaps, full stop.

I'm not into lying or pretending it's not been modified. Can anybody recommend an insurer who isn't paranoid about remaps. Could such an insurer actually exist or is paying double the norm these days?

[phil-gtv6]

Greenlight?

[towney]

after declaring all my mods, lowering, remap, exaust system, mine only went up £28.

thats with elephant

[Alonzo]

I got a quote from Greenlight, still expensive. Elephant was £60 cheaper. Anymore suggestions?

[Joss]

There is one simple reason your insurance will go up. You are increasing power while doing nothing for safety which makes your car more liable for accidents. Rule of thumb when tuning. Handling, Braking, Power in this order. I modded my car with uprated brakes and suspension. Then did exhaust mods, remapping, fmic etc and guess what. It was exactly the same as before when it was unmodified. Basically leave the remap till later. I'm with Adrian flux BTW

[Alonzo]

Ummm .... I don't think I can be bothered uprating the brakes just so it doesn't cost me extra to include the remap. I can't believe this is so hard. Looks like I'm going to have to give the remap a miss (sorry AHM). I'm surprised there's not more threads about this. I guess most people are going down the "what remap" route

[Joss]

No most people go down the I'm going to improve the brakes before I add power route. If you can't be "bothered" with safety then you'll have to deal with higher insurance costs. You could always not say anything but as insurers will find any excuse not to pay out then it's up to you. You may get paid or you may find you end up with no car and no money.

[phil-gtv6]

Isn't uprating the brakes only worth it if you hammer them persistently in a short period of time to the extent that they fade badly ?

- if you have a remap just for the extra oomph now and again the standard brakes will be just as good/safe as uprated ones

[Joss]

Alfa aren't known for doing fantastic brakes with the exception of the brembo options and yes the brakes really show up when you hammer them. How can standard brakes be as good or safe as uprated ones. That's the whole reason why you fit uprated ones They are better and stop quicker ergo safer You hear plenty of stories of people upping their power and doing nothing else only to end up in a hedge somewhere as the car wasn't up to the job. Simple common sense really. As set of decent uprated front front pads is enough to cope with a remap. And with good ones for around £100-150 I can't see the problem.

[aziraphale]

try asking A-Plan Insurance - their Thatcham branch deals with specialist and modified vehicles.

[Alonzo]

Originally Posted by aziraphale

try asking A-Plan Insurance - their Thatcham branch deals with specialist and modified vehicles.

I've admitted defeat, told myself the car's not that slow really (it's the lighter facelift model) and succumbed to the ridiculously cheap Direct Line quote for an unmodded car. Ironically I go past A-Plan in Thatcham every day!

[phil-gtv6]

Originally Posted by Joss

Alfa aren't known for doing fantastic brakes with the exception of the brembo options and yes the brakes really show up when you hammer them. How can standard brakes be as good or safe as uprated ones. That's the whole reason why you fit uprated ones They are better and stop quicker ergo safer You hear plenty of stories of people upping their power and doing nothing else only to end up in a hedge somewhere as the car wasn't up to the job. Simple common sense really. As set of decent uprated front front pads is enough to cope with a remap. And with good ones for around £100-150 I can't see the problem.

What would make you think that bigger brakes will stop a car quicker?

The limiting factor concerning braking distances is the grip between the tyres and the road - assuming that the brakes fitted can apply enough force to cause the tyres to lose friction with the road, which is the case for all modern cars.

This is why fitting uprated brakes will not make your car stop any quicker if they are operating at full efficiency. They will prevent the brakes losing their efficiency after extreme usage which is the reason for fitting them.

[NineOneSix]

He's saying just upgrading the pads, although at higher speeds the efficiency is severely diminished which is the reason for a larger rotor.

Another thing, are modern brakes any good or are they just over assisted giving the impression they are good?

I have 305 brembos with fast road pads and I struggle to lock up my wheels above 60 and yes I have tried many times to do this and no I don't have ABS as if it's removed it's not an MOT failure.

[alfaholic1001]

my premium is a bit more with AD remap but the uprated brakes and suspension brings it down again Greenlight seem good and i didnt get a premium hike yr 2 like many seem to do as a matter of course -covers the extra NCB discount

[NineOneSix]

My premium is extortionate, but if you do an engine conversion, suspension mods, braking mods, wheels, remapping, exhaust, air filter, turbo boost controller and a list as long as your arm it will be if you have no NCB.

But it should drop a fair amount once I have a years NCB again.

[phil-gtv6]

Originally Posted by NineOneSix

He's saying just upgrading the pads, although at higher speeds the efficiency is severely diminished which is the reason for a larger rotor.

Another thing, are modern brakes any good or are they just over assisted giving the impression they are good?

I have 305 brembos with fast road pads and I struggle to lock up my wheels above 60 and yes I have tried many times to do this and no I don't have ABS as if it's removed it's not an MOT failure.

I wonder if all the electrical trickery in the braking system prevents too sharp an application of the brakes at high speed to prevent instability?

But I see what you mean, at higher speeds not all car's brakes are up to the job

[NineOneSix]

There is no electrical component in my braking system, I can slow down seriously quickly, but loss of traction is almost impossible. I bet when I upgrade to 330 brakes with some serious pads I will be able too though.

In a ford focus I know that the braking system pushes the pedal back if it thinks your panicing, not seen an alfa with this system though.

[Joss]

Originally Posted by phil-gtv6

But I see what you mean, at higher speeds not all car's brakes are up to the job

My point exactly. and with remap you are likely to be coming from higher speeds nmore often as you are enjoying your extra power.