If money were no object 210 2.4JTDm tuning

[ninja_Jim]

If money were no object, what mod would or could you do to a 2.4JTD engine and what sort of power /torque output could you expect ? Just interested in what everyone's general thoughts are.

[yan.ko]

fmic
exhaust
intake
sensors
clutch/flywheel
differential
turbo
fuel pump
(injectors)

300+HP/650+Nm

[JS JTD]

Originally Posted by yan.ko

fmic
exhaust
intake
sensors
clutch/flywheel
differential
turbo
fuel pump
(injectors)

300+HP/650+Nm

Add propane injection to this list.. +50 to +100 HP extra...

[John_Connor]

Originally Posted by yan.ko

fmic
exhaust
intake
sensors
clutch/flywheel
differential
turbo
fuel pump
(injectors)

300+HP/650+Nm

Aren't stock injectors and fuel pump already enough for 300hp+ ?

[yan.ko]

Could be. That's why I put fuel pump at the end and bracketed the injectors.

[Allerd]

Propane injection could be very interesting in holland, iets available at almost every gas station.
Anybody got more info about that?


Merc 350cdi Garrett gtb2260vklr would be the way to go for driveability , a bigger holset vgt turbo for max power.

[ALFA TUNER]

Originally Posted by yan.ko

Could be. That's why I put fuel pump at the end and bracketed the injectors.

Originally Posted by John_Connor

Aren't stock injectors and fuel pump already enough for 300hp+ ?

You don't need either,we had in excess of 310 without changing them.

[yan.ko]

chmm, propane is just another fuel, shouldn't be used as nos. It increases EGT also.
I would definitely choose WM to make the pressure development a bit "nicer" and GTB2271VKLR (or VNT25 if 22 will suffer from boost creep).

Mmmmm 400HP 2.4JTD .... any sponsors here?

[jbsmith1]

.

[ALFA TUNER]

.

[jbsmith1]

.

[Allerd]

. :d

[yan.ko]

. ?

[zbrskz]

From experience on my 1.9, I would say 350bhp & 625Nm with turbo+fmic.

Luis

[John_Connor]

Originally Posted by zbrskz

From experience on my 1.9, I would say 350bhp & 625Nm with turbo+fmic.

Luis

So that's on a 2.4 JTDM 200hp engines. How about 2.4 JTDm 175 and 185hp? As far as I know fuel pump isn't CP3 1600 bar like on the 200hp version.

[TribesMan]

185HP has the same fuel pump as 200/210HP models - 1600bar.

175HP uses older 1400bar pump.

[John_Connor]

Originally Posted by TribesMan

185HP has the same fuel pump as 200/210HP models - 1600bar.

175HP uses older 1400bar pump.

Ok then. So my question applies only to the 175hp version.

P.S. which turbo does the 185hp version use? Still the gt2256v?

And even if you have the 175hp version engine, could u fit a CP3 1600bar pump?

[ajs178]

Originally Posted by ALFA TUNER

You don't need either,we had in excess of 310 without changing them.

Hi Alfa Tuner,

How much can you safely get out of the 1.9jtdm 16V on the Alfa GT?

[zbrskz]

Originally Posted by John_Connor

So that's on a 2.4 JTDM 200hp engines. How about 2.4 JTDm 175 and 185hp? As far as I know fuel pump isn't CP3 1600 bar like on the 200hp version.

Mine has a "1400bar" pump has well. It's currently making +280bhp, an "extra" cylinder would give it another 70bhp, I would say ...

The tricky part would be which turbo to use ..., maybe the gtb2260vklr from the 265bhp 350CDI. I actually use Brera's 210bhp gtb2056v that at 2bar@28.5lb/min should be close to it's limit, nevertheless, making 280bhp on the 1.9l, which means the same power on the 2.4 should be no problem at all.

Luis

[TribesMan]

Originally Posted by John_Connor

Ok then. So my question applies only to the 175hp version.

P.S. which turbo does the 185hp version use? Still the gt2256v?

And even if you have the 175hp version engine, could u fit a CP3 1600bar pump?

185HP version uses the same turbo as 175HP engine.

You cant replace 1400bar pump with newer 1600bar on 175HP engine. 185HP engine uses newer type of ECU C39 and 1600bar pumps need this ECU to operate properly.

[John_Connor]

Originally Posted by zbrskz

Mine has a "1400bar" pump has well. It's currently making +280bhp, an "extra" cylinder would give it another 70bhp, I would say ...

The tricky part would be which turbo to use ..., maybe the gtb2260vklr from the 265bhp 350CDI. I actually use Brera's 210bhp gtb2056v that at 2bar@28.5lb/min should be close to it's limit, nevertheless, making 280bhp on the 1.9l, which means the same power on the 2.4 should be no problem at all.

Luis

Aren't 1400bar pumps almost the same as 8/10v JTD ones? I know the difference was only in the pulley and that 1400 ones were designed for higher rpm. But they are still CP1.

zbrskz You handle all that power with your stock 1.9jtdm gearbox? I've heard 2.4 jtdm 175hp gearboxes were kinda weak and couldn't handle the power you have for example.

Thanks to everybody for the quick replies.

[zbrskz]

Originally Posted by John_Connor

Aren't 1400bar pumps almost the same as 8/10v JTD ones? I know the difference was only in the pulley and that 1400 ones were designed for higher rpm. But they are still CP1.

You're absolutely right. My pump operates at higher rpm compared to its 8/10v JTD counterpart, nevertheless, it is a CP1. I've thought seriously on moving to a CP3 pump, but there are some technical issues that must be sorted in order to use this pump with my ECU, just as Tribesman mentioned. Anyway, with my current power levels, I really have no use for the much better CP3 pump. Going from 1750 to 1800bar would represent an insignificant 1% power increase. Although, the CP3 pump would make sense in a +1800bar scenario, but haven't studied what must be upgraded along with the rail pressure sensor, which I know from experience (159 JTDm) can't read more than 1815bar.

Originally Posted by John_Connor

zbrskz You handle all that power with your stock 1.9jtdm gearbox? I've heard 2.4 jtdm 175hp gearboxes were kinda weak and couldn't handle the power you have for example..

Power doesn't directly stress the gearbox, torque does, and specially the way it is delivered. That is the reason why I limit my torque to 500Nm. Another good thing is to use a good lambda limitation factor, not to limit smoke, but to prevent that 500Nm are delivered in a "flash". I've found clutches and transmissions to be a lot more sensitive to torque rather than the gearbox itself.

Regarding this topic, I wouldn't be too comfortable with the 625Nm I've mentioned for the 2.4, because I really have no idea of what its gearbox "thinks" about this ...

Regards,

Luis

[TribesMan]

Since 2.4 is a 5 cylinder engine 600Nm should not be such problem... Torque on a 5 cylinder is delivered smoothly, with lower torque spikes. It is the "pulsating" nature of the torque that harms the gearbox/clutch/DMF the most.

I saw a great website once that compared the smoothness of different engine layouts, but I cant find it at the moment.

[ninja_Jim]

well, here goes - and with the knowledge that I risk being completely alienated..... what would you do if the above was the case, and there were no space restrictions..... (ie not being actually used in an alfa.... )

[exar1711]

How much fuel + air do you people think you could fit inside the engine without making the top come off or causing any other kind of cataclysm. My Brera 2.4 200hp is injecting a max of 88mm3 for now, and I believe 100mm3 wouldnt be an issue, but how much further could it go?