Tuning potentials of Alfa GT 1.9 JTDm 16v

[dusanGT]

Now I am owner of one Alfa GT 1.9 JTDm 16v (from 11/2007, 149600km, EDC16C39, see picture bellow)... My "good old" 147 1.9 JTD 8v (maybe you remember tuning activities about it) went to my sons .
Our friend TribesMan gave me some information about tuning potentials of mentioned JTDm and EDC16C39. My additional questions are:
a) Which are issues about mechanical blocking of EGR? Is a necessary (or only suitable) to software disconnect of EGR?
b) Is it possible to mount simple freeflow intake pipe on the manifold (instead of original with butterfly) after the mechanical blocking and software disconnect of EGR?
c) What is better solution for low/mid/high range revs: BMC-CDA or original air filter?
d) Which are issues about replacement of first catalyst with downpipe for this euro4 engine?
e) Does replacement of second catalyst (with freeflow box) make some problem?
f) Does original exhaust endbox is appropriate solution for activation of tuning potential of JTDm?
g) which is limit boost for GT's GT1749v turbo?
h) is there enough space behind front bumper for FMIC?

[TribesMan]

a) no issues if you do proper software mod
b) yes
c) IMO original... but some people have different opinion
d) none just keep the lambda probe if you have model without DPF
e) no
f) depends
g) I wouldn't go over 2.6 bar for reliable everyday car, but you can try and push it a but more...
h) yes

[dusanGT]

TribesMan - you bring a good news!
a) By blocking of EGR without proper software mod: I have a MCSF and limp mode or only light on the screen of boardcomp?
b) you remember I have opinion about BMC-CDA as slightly better solution in comparison with original air box
c) 2.6bar of boost (with "little" boost peaks) is enough for 24/7 car...
d) about FMIC - what is your opinion about a probably greater turbo lag as a consequence of the more complex pipe system?
e) you mean on enough space for FMIC without any modifications?
f) what is usual time for reading of EDC16c39 by use of Galletto 1260?
g) Is a Galletto 1260 proper interface for programming of EDC16c39?

[TribesMan]

a) MCSF for sure, limp mode not
d) not noticeable
e) you need custom made pipes and brackets for FMIC, but not much more
f) 45 minutes
g) depends who you ask

[dusanGT]

d) Maybe original SMIC instead of FMIC is enough good solution for everyday street driving...
g) one friend told that has checksum errors without serious consequences in use of Galletto 1260 clone in programming of EDC16c39...

[TribesMan]

Original SMIC is good for stock map... for serious tuning FMIC upgrade is first step. Without it there is no reason to go above 2.5 bar pressure. You will not be able to keep the charge temperatures down.

Dont know about Galletto checksum problems.

[dusanGT]

What is your experience with Galletto clone in programming of EDC16c39?

[JS JTD]

Very nice choice!
Looks like you have the same engine as mine, only difference could be the presence of a DPF.
That dpf takes away some power potential.
Check if you have the oxygen sensor in the precat, if so, you don't have a DPF.

With mine I blocked EGR completely and placed a downpipe without any issues.

[Squadrone Rosso]

I'd PM KendalBeefcake before you do any of the above as he spent loads making his GT faster only to have the engine go pop

There's a thread in the GT lounge somewhere.

[yan.ko]

Nice one Dusan Seems I have left alone in 8V line ... :sad:

[dusanGT]

Originally Posted by JS JTD

Very nice choice!
Check if you have the oxygen sensor in the precat, if so, you don't have a DPF.
With mine I blocked EGR completely and placed a downpipe without any issues.

I wait my GT which is on the customs inspection and after that I will check existence of lambda in the precat... Btw, I sent to you one message by email service of js-tuning...

Originally Posted by yan.ko

Nice one Dusan Seems I have left alone in 8V line ... :sad:

Your success in tuning activities will be continued in the 16v world, for sure...

[Singularity]

Myself and 'Kendalbeefcake' fitted a FMIC (from JS), removed the cats from the exhaust and removed the EGR via mapping. Power output was around the 225bhp mark.

Unfortunately Kendal's went pop, mine is still fine although the clutch can't cope with the power, an uprated clutch is a must IMHO.

I haven't had any error messages with mine and it has no cats and no egr, the car has just past the MOT test with no problems too. I had the exhaust custom made with the sensor in the precat fitted.

I assume you'll be fitting the Q2?

b)this could be a problem. You'll see from the pic that the battery could be a problem when removing the butterfly valve. I assume you'd want to shorten the piping slightly and go straight out of the block to the intercooler removing two bends in the piping? With the battery in place this makes it impossible.

To fit the FMIC you'll have to modify the airbox (remove the resonator). I had no noticeable difference in turbo lag.

[dusanGT]

Which year and ECU was yours former GT?
On my older 1.8 JTD 8v I replaced obstacle box (see picture) from top of battery to side.

[blayde]

Originally Posted by Singularity

To fit the FMIC you'll have to modify the airbox (remove the resonator). I had no noticeable difference in turbo lag.

To fit an FMIC you dont have to cut anything in the airbox. I've installed one myself at home and didn't cut.

By the way there are better options then a FMIC of that type. I've intalled one with 460x160x90 and the results are far away from what i expect and desire. Mainly because of the GT's front bumper shape.

I will install soon an FMIC with 580x365 frontal area in my GT without any significant mods (will not cut anything).

By the way 225hp on OEM turbo, or your car is running extremely high boost pressure (+1.7bar) or your rolling roads is mesuring bad. I know a guy with a Fiat Bravo 1.9 JTDm witch had done an very agressive remap (1.75bar boost) and broke his turbo in one week Now has 206hp with 1.65bar and lots of smoke.

My car has 194hp and 406Nm with 1.55bar without any smoke. Mods (very ineficient) FMIC, reinforced clutch, EGR off and remap. Soon new FMIC, downpipe, Ducati Corse injectors and remap adjustment. Expected power: 205/210hp and some torque. Smoke free of course.

[Allerd]

you can bolt on a straigt inlet wich would replace the butterflyvalve , but then you would still have the narrow egr channel beyond it.
Only sullution is to weld a bigger pipe to the inlet like I did with my 20v.
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...d/815bde8d.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...d/9672ba84.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...d/a261f863.jpg

You wil lose the egr mounting , so that went aswell
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...d/7d08885e.jpg

[dusanGT]

Originally Posted by blayde

I will install soon an FMIC with 580x365 frontal area in my GT without any significant mods (will not cut anything).

460x160x90 FMIC was symmetrically or asymmetrically regards to the middle of front bumper?
Symmetrically positioned 580mmx365mm FMIC can be installed without cutting of anything?

Originally Posted by blayde

By the way 225hp on OEM turbo, or your car is running extremely high boost pressure (+1.7bar) or your rolling roads is mesuring bad. I know a guy with a Fiat Bravo 1.9 JTDm witch had done an very agressive remap (1.75bar boost) and broke his turbo in one week Now has 206hp with 1.65bar and lots of smoke.
My car has 194hp and 406Nm with 1.55bar without any smoke. Mods (very ineficient) FMIC, reinforced clutch, EGR off and remap. Soon new FMIC, downpipe, Ducati Corse injectors and remap adjustment. Expected power: 205/210hp and some torque. Smoke free of course.

I had 147 1.9 JTD 8v with 1.68bar of boost (even with 1.9bar peaks) in a period of one year without turbo issues or problems...

@Allerd - I have picture for this mod in my version...

[yan.ko]

See http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...r-upgrade.html (GT Cloverleaf - FMIC/Decat/EGR Upgrade). Maybe you'll find there answers for your questions.

[Allerd]

Originally Posted by dusan

@Allerd - I have picture for this mod in my version...

Won't work like that..
the egr is the bottle neck of this inlet , it's narrowed to 43mm just behind the butterflyvalve.
Mine is 57 al the way now.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...84_size580.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/..._size580-1.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...85_size580.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/...87_size580.jpg

[dusanGT]

@yan.ko - Yes I know about this - very similar disposition and FMIC dimension as my FMIC for "good old" 147 1.9 JTD 8v...
@Allerd - maybe we have very different inlet chambers (2.4 20v and 1.9 8v), but I simple removed EGR completely and put simple pipe fixed by three screws...

[Allerd]

http://martijngoorden.nl/files/2010/...aat-schoon.jpg
this is where the butterflyvalve bolts on to , you can also see where the egr bolts on.
this is al gone on my car

[dusanGT]

Is it resistor in one of your pictures? Instead of EGR?

[blayde]

Originally Posted by dusan

460x160x90 FMIC was symmetrically or asymmetrically regards to the middle of front bumper?
Symmetrically positioned 580mmx365mm FMIC can be installed without cutting of anything?


I had 147 1.9 JTD 8v with 1.68bar of boost (even with 1.9bar peaks) in a period of one year without turbo issues or problems...

@Allerd - I have picture for this mod in my version...

My actual FMIC is symmetrically instaled. Asymmetricaly is impossible due to his thikness. Even so it has the total length of 700mm (inlet-outlet).

And regard to new FMIC, yes it is possible to install without any cut. The only thing you have to use is your imagination. It has some tricks but nothing serious. The maximum length of FMIC has to be 650mm (the 580x365 is the core size).

In my opinion 1.7bar its a boost pressure i don't want to abuse. Remember, GT's CF4 turbo is exactly the same as 147 Ducati Corse JTDm (which has 1.55bar of stock boost).

For now is good enough. In next year, who knows, probably a GTB one

[Allerd]

Originally Posted by dusan

Is it resistor in one of your pictures? Instead of EGR?

yep , just a normal risistor . Don't know exactly witch , but it only costed 70ct's
Did have a custom remap , otherwise you wil get a engine failure.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by blayde

To fit an FMIC you dont have to cut anything in the airbox. I've installed one myself at home and didn't cut.

By the way there are better options then a FMIC of that type. I've intalled one with 460x160x90 and the results are far away from what i expect and desire. Mainly because of the GT's front bumper shape.

I will install soon an FMIC with 580x365 frontal area in my GT without any significant mods (will not cut anything).

By the way 225hp on OEM turbo, or your car is running extremely high boost pressure (+1.7bar) or your rolling roads is mesuring bad. I know a guy with a Fiat Bravo 1.9 JTDm witch had done an very agressive remap (1.75bar boost) and broke his turbo in one week Now has 206hp with 1.65bar and lots of smoke.

My car has 194hp and 406Nm with 1.55bar without any smoke. Mods (very ineficient) FMIC, reinforced clutch, EGR off and remap. Soon new FMIC, downpipe, Ducati Corse injectors and remap adjustment. Expected power: 205/210hp and some torque. Smoke free of course.

Perhaps you can get away without cutting the airbox, although space is pretty tight down there!

It could be that the dyno's were optimistic in our case, they do vary hugely from one to another!

I know the latest JTDm have a different ECU which apparently controls more parameters and can achieve more power safely? My car doesn't smoke much at all, it's just past the smoke test for the UK's MOT with no problems and I don't have any catalytic convertors in place too.

My experience is that with these mods it's as quick as all the vauxhall VXR's/megane turbo's etc and it's the real world that matters, not numbers on a graph.

For a short period of time I also had water/methanol injection installed on mine, the power was insane but my pump seized and I never replaced it. Fun whilst it lasted but it destroyed what was left of my clutch.

With regards to fitting a GTB etc, I guess it comes down to what the drivetrain can handle. I guess if you limit the low down power/torque it would help, but then what's the point of increasing the power only to limit it at a later date??

[blayde]

Originally Posted by Singularity

I know the latest JTDm have a different ECU which apparently controls more parameters and can achieve more power safely? My car doesn't smoke much at all, it's just past the smoke test for the UK's MOT with no problems and I don't have any catalytic convertors in place too.

My experience is that with these mods it's as quick as all the vauxhall VXR's/megane turbo's etc and it's the real world that matters, not numbers on a graph.

With regards to fitting a GTB etc, I guess it comes down to what the drivetrain can handle. I guess if you limit the low down power/torque it would help, but then what's the point of increasing the power only to limit it at a later date??

Yes i agree with you. My car is pretty quick also. Regard to smoke, he doesn't smoke nothing. Exactly like stock.

Its proved the gearbox can handle pretty much torque (~500Nm or more). Not as much as TDis but who needs more then 500Nm? You can improve the gearbox reliability with surtain mods to it. Q2, reinforced clutch, reinforced flywheel, and so on... Probably the biggest issue with the drivetrain will be the driveshaft. No one as discovered yet a reliable solution for this (has far as i know).

Happy new year