Project 147 JTDm16v GTB

[JS JTD]

Since my GTB topic is getting a bit offtopic with other related subjects, I figured I might aswell make a project topic with all engine mods listed.

This is the GTB topic I reffered to:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...urbo-pics.html (GTB2056v JTDm 2.4 turbo (pics!))

So here it is:

The car, a 147 JTDm 16v from late 2006:
http://i54.tinypic.com/rs5xdj.jpg

The goal is to reach 240 hp and 450 Nm using a GTB2056v turbo.

Setup includes:
- GTB2056v turbo modified to fit
- New stainless downpipe
- Rest of exhaust in stainless 2.5"
- EGR delete
- FMIC
- Modified intake with 80mm MAF and OEM airbox
- Of course a custom map
- Reinforced dual mass flywheel
- Reinforced sports clutch
- Q2 diff

First I mounted a downpipe and boost gauge to it:
http://i55.tinypic.com/1z6y2cp.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/5l7vyx.jpg

Then I got it remapped at Squadra Tuning to 175 hp and completely shut the EGR.
This is temporary setup, meanwhile I've been busy building all the custom parts around the turbo.

The GTB2056v turbo:
http://i53.tinypic.com/30agb47.jpg

And next to the OEM turbo:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2zp487p.jpg

Comparing turbine inlet with the OEM exhaust manifold where it should be mounted to:
http://i56.tinypic.com/208wql1.jpg

Template I've made to make the parts surrounding the turbo:
http://i51.tinypic.com/6fnud4.jpg

Compressor housing mod:
http://i54.tinypic.com/6nrpcy.jpg

Turbine foot mod:
http://i53.tinypic.com/mw64cx.jpg

Exhaust manifold mod 1:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2z50wtf.jpg

Exhaust manifold mod 2:
http://i53.tinypic.com/10hrndg.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2rpwtid.jpg

Custom compressor outlet pipe:
http://i54.tinypic.com/mjvbc8.jpg

Custom stainless steel downpipe:
http://i52.tinypic.com/20zbqyc.jpg

[JS JTD]

The parts fitted in the template:
http://i54.tinypic.com/1hzgyb.jpg

Template for turbo intake pipe:
http://i51.tinypic.com/2mqvlf9.jpg

And it fits:
http://i55.tinypic.com/imj6yu.jpg

The MAF, a very compact 80mm piece, rated to 800kg/hr airflow. Should be enough.
Here is it next to the OEM one:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2e1b0nr.jpg

FMIC pipes:
http://i55.tinypic.com/289a64g.jpg

Reinforced Valeo dual mass flywheel, rated for up to 450 Nm:
http://i51.tinypic.com/66j3ap.jpg

Reinforced clutch with Kevlar friction plates:
http://i55.tinypic.com/15cy69d.jpg

Q2 diff:
http://i52.tinypic.com/vws574.jpg

After these engine mods also mods to the handling and brakes will be done.

Any comments are welcome !

[TribesMan]

Well if I were on your place... I would do exactly the same

BTW, where did you buy the reinforced flywheel? What is the cost of it?

[Black-Sheep]

looks verry promising... ^^
if you're going to finish this i'm going to buy a kit from you

(just without the clutch and IC)

[Singularity]

Where did you get the flywheel and clutch?

as ever though.

[gemeoalfa156]

is that a black diamond clutch? as i can see the disc as no springs on it, won´t it be to hard to handle?

[TribesMan]

I think this is reinforced clutch kit from clutch-specialists... It doesn't have springs, because this car uses dual mass flywheel and the springs are in the flywheel instead on the clutch disc... it looks just like the stock clutch disc...

[JS JTD]

Thanks for your comments guys.

The reinforced dual mass flywheel and clutch I actually sell myself.

[alfalv]

What about intake manifold? Standart or modifyed? What size of piping from IC to manifold?
Would you explain for me the preference of big MAF. For example - with standar maf 4.5v= 1200mg of air. With big maf 4.5v = 1700mg of air. But ecu anyway understand 4.5v as a 1200mg of air. I think, without correction via smoke map, installing big maf has no sence. Is it true or false?

[TribesMan]

When you change the MAF you need to modify linearization map inside the ECU.

I dont think bigger MAF is neccessary... because even the stock one has huge reserve in measuring capacity.
There is an benefit of lower intake restriction with bigger MAF housing.

But then again, with stock airbox the inlet to MAF is quite limited.

[alfalv]

I cut the lower end of standart airbox and with little modifications put inside it cone filter. This dicision allow to icrease airflow and keep a cone filter quite clear

[yan.ko]

Doesn't worth, the filtration surface of cone filter is much smaller then stock one. Personally I'm going to use stock airbox with GTA stock filter, airbox cap and MAF. All rotated by 90 degs to point toward compressor inlet.

[alfalv]

There are a lot of different sized cone filters. My Green filter has a just same lenght of a standart filter with a more edged surface. So, I think difference between cone and standart filters not so dramatical.

[TribesMan]

There is nothing to be gained with those filters...

Stock paper filter is more than good enough.

[JS JTD]

Originally Posted by TribesMan

When you change the MAF you need to modify linearization map inside the ECU.

I dont think bigger MAF is neccessary... because even the stock one has huge reserve in measuring capacity.
There is an benefit of lower intake restriction with bigger MAF housing.

But then again, with stock airbox the inlet to MAF is quite limited.

Indeed, map has to be modified, otherwise the ECU will think it gets less air with the bigger MAF.
For the 80mm MAF, well I think there's a good reason 80mm MAF are OEM at the 2.4 JTD 20v engines. Maybe the standard 70mm one will just be able to measure it with some tweaks to the acceptable voltage range, but I think accuracy will be worse.
Also, as you say, the pressure loss pre turbo will be less.

Originally Posted by alfalv

There are a lot of different sized cone filters. My Green filter has a just same lenght of a standart filter with a more edged surface. So, I think difference between cone and standart filters not so dramatical.

If that's the case, then why would you bother placing an element that:
1. will allow more dirt in to your engine
2. is more expensive
??
As said already, the filter element is no bottleneck. The snorkel is, the diameter necks down to less then 50mm if I recall right. I will cut it and use a larger diameter hose for it.

[typos1]

What differnce will the hose make ?

Surely the same amount of air will be going into a slightly larger hose, you would have to make the intake side of the snorkel bigger to get more air in ?

[JS JTD]

Originally Posted by typos1

What differnce will the hose make ?

Surely the same amount of air will be going into a slightly larger hose, you would have to make the intake side of the snorkel bigger to get more air in ?

The cross sectional area of the snorkel is not even, but the smallest half way.
That smallest area dictates the maximum amount of flow at a given pressure difference.

The laws of physics applied!

http://i52.tinypic.com/mkazw0.jpg

[typos1]

I see, JS, but if the snorkel gathers as much air as its inlet allows, what happens to it when it reaches the restriction ? I thought it would just be compressed, where does it go?

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by typos1

I see, JS, but if the snorkel gathers as much air as its inlet allows, what happens to it when it reaches the restriction ? I thought it would just be compressed, where does it go?

Doesn't work that way, in the microsecond of the turbo spooling up, it draws a chunk of air from the pipework just feeding into the turbo. This then creates low pressure, and air starts to flow into it from the rest of the system. Each rotation of the turbo it is just going to suck a small amount of air from right before the compressor. But air will not flow into this low pressure area effectively from the atmospheric pressure area (the airbox) if on the other side of the atmospheric pressure area there is another low pressure area (the filter side of that restrictive section) - if you get me. At high turbo speeds, that narrow section will not flow air into the airbox as well as a section as wide as the intake to the airbox, so it will mean that there is a slight vacuum in the airbox, and the lesser difference in pressure between the airbox and the intake to the turbo will slow the speed at which the air moves from the airbox into the turbo.

The same applies on the Twinsparks, the exact same part is restrictive in exactly the same manner and the solution is to fit the GTA snorkel, which is of uniform diameter across the whole length. A restrictive intake can be a good thing at low loads and low throttle openings on a car which is normally aspirated though, but on a diesel you want the least restriction pre-turbo as possible.

[typos1]

I see, I cut my snorkel off and added a tube down to the opening of aftermarket enclosed filter, so it sucks in air from the snorkel as well as from the lower grille. Cant remember where I cut it off, before or after the restriction. But going to make my own enclosed filter (using, dont laugh, a flowerpot) with the tube attached to the enclosure, will make sure the tube is as large as poss, then.

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by typos1

I see, I cut my snorkel off and added a tube down to the opening of aftermarket enclosed filter, so it sucks in air from the snorkel as well as from the lower grille. Cant remember where I cut it off, before or after the restriction. But going to make my own enclosed filter (using, dont laugh, a flowerpot) with the tube attached to the enclosure, will make sure the tube is as large as poss, then.

I did something similar on my old 3 litre with a K&N cone filter inside half a 3.0 GTV airbox, with a 156 GTA (I think) snorkel attached. It sounded epic, but I'm sure the lack of seal at the top of the airbox meant it was drawing some air in from the engine bay. I went back to a CDA in the end, but mounted it horizontally to draw air in directly from the N/S/F wing, as I was previously unhappy with it mounted vertically in place of the OEM airbox as on my lowered car there wasn't enough ground clearance to add the supplied cold air feed pipe, so it was just open at the bottom - not good for puddles.

[typos1]

Yeah, I worry about puddles and sucking in water, so put the opening behind the front reg so it would suck up the air coming from the grille below. Dont really get any ram effect then, though.

I d have found a way of sealing the top of the box, rather than pay all that cash out for a CDA !

[Pud237]

I sold the CDA the car came with for £80 to buy the K&N. The GTV bits and bobs I got from the bloke who built the 2.4 JTD GTV in Leeds.

Then I happened to find another CDA on ebay and won it for £40. Happy days

Still got the K&N, I'll use it some day on something else.

[typos1]

Ah, the GTV JTD, wasnt it on ebay the other week?

Cool, glad you didnt pay RRP for it.

Use the K&N on the F30 6 speed 20V with the wizard back box . . . when you finally build it !!

(think we ve hijacked JS's thread a bit )

[Singularity]

What about the venturi effect?