Review of Performance Friction pads (with Telemetry)

[jack75]

Originally Posted by Autolusso

Thank you for your review and I am very glad you agree with me and I don’t have to eat my hat

We are retailing the pads for £145 including VAT and UK delivery, world wide delivery is also possible.

We are offering a fitting service: Performance Friction Pads and high temperature brake fluid for £250 including VAT.

We have them in stock, they can not only be used in the GTA but you get really good result with any of the Alfa’s fitted with the Brembo callipers. We tried them in a 159 2.4 JTD which as you all know is quite a heavy car and the result was fantastic.

If you want your Alfa to stop this is a must have purchase.

Ned

Hi,

I leave in France and I'd be interested by these pads. Can you give the price and the way to order them, shipped to France ?

Thanks

Jack

[OperationAlfa]

A fantastic initial post TB! Good effort.

I am now looking to upgrade my front pads to these babies. I also want some braided hoses.

[Autolusso]

Originally Posted by jack75

Hi,

I leave in France and I'd be interested by these pads. Can you give the price and the way to order them, shipped to France ?

Thanks

Jack

Hi Jack

Delivery to France will be £20.

Ned

[147owner]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

Prob just a typo but Lateral g means purely cornering forces, still 1.2g cornering is impressive and means type-r tyres (unless the corner was cambered).
Top quality road tyres generally can only pull 1g on flat cornering.

So assuming you meant max of 1.2g longtitudinal (braking) with 305mm pads - it would probably require a moment or two of uphill braking I would have thought to be achievable?
I should point out that the braking zones on my track are downhill so the brakes have to work a little harder than normal, the weight of the GTA working against the brakes.

RE the max g forces shown by the data, I use a time-filtered average of 0.2s for the data, to avoid any transient spikes of max g forces due to bumps etc.
Without appropriate filtering the max forces would be unrealistically higher.

@147Owner, I think I have telemetry for 305mm oem pads too somewhere, if I haven't deleted it.

Sorry, it was a typo. I of course meant longitudinal G. Point taken about the filtering. Even so, I was regularly seeing over 1 G in cornering too, using Falken RT-615 tyres. They are road legal, but supposedly based on hard competition compound, with a reduced tread depth. I have been very happy with these tyres...

Correction: I've just re-looked at the data and the maximum value I got under brakes was -1.12, with a filtered value of -0.93. I've taken some screen shots of the data and will put that up under a new topic.

[AlfaJack]

Cheers TB, stunning review! I will consier these for the Q4 if they make them, currently I run with DS2500s which I find are very good.

What high boiling point brake fluid would you recommend?

[gtachris]

Great review TB cheers. Thanks to Ned too for supplying them for review.

[Big Jon]

I was wondering if anyone has any experience of RedStuff pads. I have obtained a set reasonably cheaply and wondered if they are any good.

[Trailbraker]

I am currently using Selenia Tutela extreme 5.

FL Selenia Poland

Its a racing Dot 4, quite expensive but 2/3 the price of Castrol SRF.
SRF is the apparently the daddy for extreme use (See the amazing specs below)
I have never used SRF myself yet, its arguable if most of us really need it, I haven't managed to fade my brakes yet with the extreme 5 stuff and believe me I try quite hard

It seems to last quite well, I think I have done 6 track days on my current content, although will refresh it shortly.
Used to change standard brakefluid every two trackdays.

Peter K seemed pretty happy with ATE super blue racing, thats about 19 euro a litre, Selenia Tutela Extreme 5 is about 38 euro a litre, SRF is about 60 euro a litre.

Brake Fluid


Selenia Extreme 5 Dry Boiling point : >300 C (>572 F)
Selenia Extreme 5 Wet Boiling point : 200 C (392 F)


ATE "Super Blue Racing" Dry boiling point : 280 C (>536)
ATE "Super Blue Racing" Wet Boiling point : 200 C (>392)

http://www.selenia.com/pag_prodotti....d_categoria=3#

SRF'S impressive specs:
Castrol SRF Dry boiling point : 310 C
Castrol Wet Boiling point : 270 C


Tons of info on other brands including side by side comparisons of specs on this article if you haven't seen it before:

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by AlfaJack

Cheers TB, stunning review! I will consier these for the Q4 if they make them, currently I run with DS2500s which I find are very good.

What high boiling point brake fluid would you recommend?

[Trailbraker]

I haven't used them myself but it seems there is large number of hardened trackday folk who don't really seem to like EBC stuff in general.

Redstuff apparently have a Friction coefficient of 0.5 so should be better than oem.
They wouldn't have the heat tolerance of the pads we are talking about above though.
For road use that could well not be an issue and you likely still would be happy with them.
The oem GTA pads are cheapish and quietish, but thats the best that could be said of them.

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by Big Jon

I was wondering if anyone has any experience of RedStuff pads. I have obtained a set reasonably cheaply and wondered if they are any good.

[GTAowner]

Trailbraker, what brake fluid would you recommend with these pads for mainly road driving and a track day here and there?

[David C]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

I think most Alfa 147/156's share the same rear brakes.

Earlier 156 until 2001 were different though.
All 2002-> 156, 147 & GT use the same rear pads.

[Big Jon]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

I haven't used them myself but it seems there is large amazing number of hardened trackday folk who don't really like EBC stuff in general.

Redstuff apparently have a Friction coefficient of 0.5 so should be better than oem.
They wouldn't have the heat tolerance of the pads we are talking about above though.
For road use that could well not be an issue and you likely still would be happy with them.
The oem GTA pads are cheapish and quietish, but thats the best that could be said of them.

Cheers,
TB

Thanks TB. I was offered them for £50 from an ex GTA owner who'd bought them but sold the car before he put them on. My pads will be due changing at the next service so I thought it was worth a punt. If they're better than OEM pads I'll be happy enough.

[AlfaJack]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

I am currently using Selenia Tutela extreme 5.

FL Selenia Poland

Its a racing Dot 4, quite expensive but 2/3 the price of Castrol SRF.
SRF is the apparently the daddy for extreme use (See the amazing specs below)
I have never used SRF myself yet, its arguable if most of us really need it, I haven't managed to fade my brakes yet with this fluid and believe me I try quite hard

It seems to last quite well, I think I have done 6 track days on my current content, although will refresh it shortly.
Used to change standard brakefluid every two trackdays.

Peter K seemed pretty happy with ATE super blue racing, thats about 19 euro a litre, Selenia Tutela Extreme 5 is about 38 euro a litre, SRF is about 60 euro a litre.

Brake Fluid


Selenia Extreme 5 Dry Boiling point : >300 C (>572 F)
Selenia Extreme 5 Wet Boiling point : 200 C (392 F)


ATE "Super Blue Racing" Dry boiling point : 280 C (>536)
ATE "Super Blue Racing" Wet Boiling point : 200 C (>392)

http://www.selenia.com/pag_prodotti....d_categoria=3#

SRF'S impressive specs:
Castrol SRF Dry boiling point : 310 C
Castrol Wet Boiling point : 270 C


Tons of info on other brands including side by side comparisons of specs on this article if you haven't seen it before:

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Cheers,
TB

Thanks very much for the info. When I was doing a trackday I found I was better off braking twice when coming to the chicane after the long straight at Bedford, but obviously this does not lead to good lap times.

The pedal would feel quite hard and I was not sure what was over heating. It did not help that my rear brakes were shot!

This fluid is expensive stuff but I may give it a go next time out

[Trailbraker]

Missed your post earlier, the Selenia stuff I was talkiing might would be overkill for an occasional trackday but you only need to buy 1L so it isn't really a big deal.

Have to say that "AP Super 600" looks good value though from the list I referenced on the stoptech site..

Originally Posted by GTAowner

Trailbraker, what brake fluid would you recommend with these pads for mainly road driving and a track day here and there?

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

I'm usinf Ferodo DOT 5.1 fluid, works a treat and is cheap.... can be had in 1l or 250ml (i think) bottles...

anyone know the exact figures for this fluid? Black bottle btw...

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

boiling point is 260°C, i just found, so nowhere near the racing fluids mentioned before...

[RicksAlfas]

Interesting stuff. Thanks TB!

[jwyatt]

Useful info TB, as always!

I absolutely swear by Carbon Metallics. I used them to great effect when Caterham racing, the standard small discs and 2-pot pistons plus carbon metallics and good fluid were far more effective than the 4-pot AP setup with standard S pads, IMHO. I think carbon metallic pads and good fluid, with the standard discs and pads, is a great and low cost improvement for any car, a lot of people get all exciteable about massive multi-piston setups but they often lack feel.

I also found carbon metallics fine for road use, better from cold than many road pads. The only downside was hot sparks coming off them and pitting the alloys under extreme use (when used to the limit at night, the sparks were like a firework!).

One reason I favour Pagid pads is the high carbon content, which gives the sort of bite and feel I prefer.

[Trailbraker]

Have you ever used the more extreme Perfromance Friction "PF01" stuff James?
(These are the performance friction race pads).

@coure_sportivo_155: nice to know you still have some economical race fluid options before needing the expensive stuff if you do need to upgrade then

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

well, it works fine with a one piston caliper, but of course by design these transfer less heat to the fluid than multiple pot calipers...

[edward]

Has anyone tried the OMP pads, I did once in a previous life - they were brilliant - and sets come up presently on jolly ol' fleebay now and then.

Anyone had any experience??

[Pomeo]

Originally Posted by edward

Has anyone tried the OMP pads, I did once in a previous life - they were brilliant - and sets come up presently on jolly ol' fleebay now and then.

Anyone had any experience??

Just bought a set which arrived yesterday.But after reading all this I don't think they will feel the same.

Sill to fit them as they are not needed right now but at £50 the full set. Tried reddotracing but couldn't get their website to give pricing info.

Excellent report BTW.

Pomoe

[vamos]

That's a great review TB, thanks for that. I have heard a rumour that the PF pads sparks/dust are especially corrosive to alloys, any sign of that? Just an internet rumour mind.

I now vote that TB tests Pagid pads as well

As for brake fluids, I have used Motul RBF 600 before to good effect (dry 312, wet 216) and it seemed reasonable in price (i.e on a post ring service the cost of the fluid never stood out ) and I never boiled it, even when I killed my discs.

[Trailbraker]

Didn't notice anything yet, AFAIK my Ultralegerras still look like new, only use them for trackdays so can't doublecheck eaisly.

You were using DS3000's last time I saw you, those are rumoured to do the same.

Performance friction do make more extreme pads than these Z-rated ones I think they are the "PF01".
These can be hard on discs though and noisey, unlike the Z-rated ones I reviewed.

BTW Vamos, I won't be going on the AO ringtrip this year, hopefully doing a seasons racing instead (will e-mail you).

Cheers,
TB

[vamos]

gulp.... racing, well I look forward to the email

Yes, the DS3000 are a bit rough on the wheels, but then again they are not a street pad. Anyway, I guess you know how I feel about worrying about the wheels, so its not a real issue for me, just wondered if there was any substance to the rumour.

Am not a hundred percent sure I wil make the ring trip this year, other priorities creeping in, though of a different nature to a season's racing