Oil Leak from Head/Block area

I have a 1972 Spider 2000 which started out with a common problem, an oil leak from the back right hand side of the engine which appeared to be head gasket failure.

Off came the head which was skimmed and replaced with a new gasket and oil sealing rings, but there was still an oil leak.

Out came the engine and the block was replaced with a secondhand item and of course another new headgasket. Still there was a leak between the head and block.

Off came the head yet again and the head gasket was replaced and of course all the rubber sealing rings and still there is a leak.

So to recap, the head has been skimmed, the block replaced (with new liners/pistons etc), new head gaskets with rubber sealing rings have been used each time and there is still an oil leak.

It has currently got everyone baffled, anyone got any ideas?

Thanks.

Assuming that the oil is not dripping down from above (cam cover, half moon seal), I'd suspect the head gasket o-ring. Does the block have a rollpin kit installed? (part number HG678)

Hi Papajam,

The leak is not coming from above the head gasket and although the exhaust manifold obscures the view, the oil is coming from the head gasket area. The next job is to clean away the oil, run the engine until it leaks and then remove the exhaust manifold to see if we locate exactly the source of the oil leak.

For the time being we are assuming the block is ok and therefore the problem is either with the gasket or the head. There are no visible problems with the head, I think if there was a crack it would show up therefore it all points to the seating of the head gasket.

I am in the UK and have not heard of a 'rollpin' kit and therefore assume that a kit has not been fitted to my block, but having followed your link it would appear that this could be the solution.

I assume because there is an aftermarket kit there is a common problem with these engines. What does the kit actually fix and how do you fit it? Can it be fitted with a standard head gasket?

Has anyone in the UK fitted a rollpin kit and if so is there a UK supplier?

Can anyone recommend a good head gasket because if I do not need a rollpin kit I am now wondering if a different head gasket manufacturer might solve the problem.

I must say I am extremely glad I found this forum, I have found some of the other links extremely useful.

Any help/comments will be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Alfa L4 engines of your vintage did not originally come with these rollpins. Shortly after the introduction of the 2l engine, owners and specialists dicovered that installing these rollpins helped with the headgasket oil leaks. Alfa followed suit and started installing the rollpins from the factory in the 1980s. The rollpins don't exactly prevent oil leaks by themselves. Their purpose is to prevent the headgasket o-rings from collapsing. Collapsed o-rings can cause oil leaks.
The pins are driven into the block with a small punch and hammer. I believe that the pins must stand proud of the block by 2mm (I'll look up the spec if need be).
Ensure that the head and block surfaces are squeaky, surgically clean. Do not use any sealer (except for certain Reinz headgasket applications). Lubetorque the head nuts in sequence and in three steps to 58 lb/ft (78 Nm, 7.8 kgm). Warm the engine and retorque in sequence, without loosening, to 61 lb/ft (82 Nm, 8.4 kgm). Drive the car for a few hundred miles and then with a cold engine, loosen one nut a time, in sequence and lubetorque to 65 lb/ft (88.5 Nm, 9.0 kgm).
I did not see the pins listed on the websites for either Alfaholics or Classic Alfas but giving them a ring may prove more fruitful. EB Spares and Highwood are other possibilities.
Good luck!!

And welcome to AO.

Originally Posted by Spider105

I have a 1972 Spider 2000 which started out with a common problem, an oil leak from the back right hand side of the engine which appeared to be head gasket failure.

Off came the head which was skimmed and replaced with a new gasket and oil sealing rings, but there was still an oil leak.

Out came the engine and the block was replaced with a secondhand item and of course another new headgasket. Still there was a leak between the head and block.

Off came the head yet again and the head gasket was replaced and of course all the rubber sealing rings and still there is a leak.

So to recap, the head has been skimmed, the block replaced (with new liners/pistons etc), new head gaskets with rubber sealing rings have been used each time and there is still an oil leak.

It has currently got everyone baffled, anyone got any ideas?

Thanks.

Is the valve cover warped or pitted? Have you changed it? Even with a new gasket it would still leak.

Just a thought

Having spoken to various UK Alfa specialists roll pin kits are not available in the UK. It would also appear that they are designed to prevent oil leaks in the long term.

This leak occurs straight away so the roll pin kit may not work in this instance.

We are now sourcing a head gasket from a different manufacturer, hopefully that will cure this persistent oil leak.

If anyone has experienced anything similar I would love to know before I pull all my hair out.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by classicgal93

Is the valve cover warped or pitted? Have you changed it? Even with a new gasket it would still leak.

Just a thought

I guess not.

good luck with your spider.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

I hope I am not tempting fate but it would appear a solution has been found.

Off came the head yet again but this time the head gasket was replaced with one from a different manufacturer and the block is now bone dry, not a leak in sight.

It has been an very expensive experience, when we first thought that the block was the cause, a second hand block and a rebuild with new liners/pistons, crank reground etc was not cheap and all because of a simple head gasket.

Care to dish the dirt on which was the good and which the bad head gasket manufacturer?

you need to get the cylinder head crack tested and pressure tested skimming is not enough.

And ideally you should get the head straightened rather than skimmed.

I don't think it would be fair to disclose the manufacturer of the original gasket, not unless it is a common problem which other Alfa owners have experienced.

The gasket that finally cured the problem is a Reinz, it is the old style original equipment with the wider sealing band which although is not currently available was sourced from Chris Sweetapple at Highwood Motors.

The car has done a couple of hundred miles now and leak free so a big thank you to Alan Bennett at Benalfa and Chris Sweetapple at Highwood

I think it is safe to say that for whatever reason it was the gasket that was causing the problem, it could not have been the block as that was replaced along with the pistons and liners so it was either the head or head gasket. As the head was skimmed and it was only a change to a different type of gasket that finally cured the problem I have to say that it does look as if the problem was caused by the gasket.

For some reason the newer gaskets have a thin sealing strip, I don't know if that is the problem or I was unlucky and managed to get three from a bad batch but at least the car is back on the road although it has hit the wallet quite hard.

Originally Posted by Spider105

Hi Papajam,

The leak is not coming from above the head gasket and although the exhaust manifold obscures the view, the oil is coming from the head gasket area. The next job is to clean away the oil, run the engine until it leaks and then remove the exhaust manifold to see if we locate exactly the source of the oil leak.

For the time being we are assuming the block is ok and therefore the problem is either with the gasket or the head. There are no visible problems with the head, I think if there was a crack it would show up therefore it all points to the seating of the head gasket.

I am in the UK and have not heard of a 'rollpin' kit and therefore assume that a kit has not been fitted to my block, but having followed your link it would appear that this could be the solution.

I assume because there is an aftermarket kit there is a common problem with these engines. What does the kit actually fix and how do you fit it? Can it be fitted with a standard head gasket?

Has anyone in the UK fitted a rollpin kit and if so is there a UK supplier?

Can anyone recommend a good head gasket because if I do not need a rollpin kit I am now wondering if a different head gasket manufacturer might solve the problem.

I must say I am extremely glad I found this forum, I have found some of the other links extremely useful.

Any help/comments will be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Just out of interest, I have just had to strip the top end of my S3 Spider to replace the valve inserts (one of the exhaust inserts fell out.....). I bought my gasket set from Highwood in Swansea and all seems ok so far. However, the purpose of my posting is to say that my engine already had the roll pins fitted, and as far as I could tell, it had never been removed before. It looks as if they are there to ensure that the rubber seal doesn't compress and block the oilway when the head is tightened down. The oil seal is allowed to compress, but because the roll pin is in the centre, it cannot spread inwards and block the flow of oil.

Hope this helps.

Andy

Hi Andy,

From what I can gather roll pins were fitted to the later cars, I do not know when but from what you have said S3 cars must have them. Talking to Alan Bennett at Benalfa roll pins are not normally necessary on the earlier cars but they do prevent long term problems when the rubber seals get old. If they were available in the UK I think I would have had them fitted, just for peace of mind when the head was off.

Although from what I have read fitting oil pins to a S2 car does restrict the oil flow to the head slightly but does increase oil pressure.

I have also e-mailed Chris at Highwood who supplied the gasket that cured the problem and he has not had any problems with the gaskets he sells so I don't think you have anything to worry about. I wish I had gone to Chris after problems with the first gasket.

This seems to be a common enough problem. I think the others would have worked if you had applied extra sealant in certain places.