Correct spark plugs - 2000 Spider Veloce

I can hear the groans already..!
I searched for earlier threads, but did not find what I was looking for.
I am seeking guidance for best spark plugs to suit a 1977 2000 Spider Veloce, with twin Dellorto carbs. All stock, including ignition sys.
I have read that Lodge plugs are preferred, but failing that, what brand and p/n would readers recommend, based on their experiences ?
Car is currently running NGK BP6ES, but I believe there are some concerns about (a) temp range, 6 vs. 7 and (b) the projected tip construction of BP vs. B series NGK plugs.
I have to say, car runs fine, but I am concerned about holing piston tops with the current plugs.
Any accumulated wisdom appreciated...

I've just replaced the plugs on my '77 Spider 2000. It used to run on NGK B7ES - these are the recommended ones if you look in the Brooklands Workshop Manual. However, I went to Halfords and they didn't have any in stock, only BP7ES, which I have heard are said to cause engine pinking. I looked in the Halfords Spark Plug guide, where the recommended Plug was NGK B7ES, or a Bosch Super 4 504/WR 78 X. I bought the Bosch ones, which have four ground electrodes and a silver plated spark tip. They have made the car feel infinitely smoother and more responsive - it was also my first time changing spark plugs!!
By the way, my Spider has twin Solex carbs, but I don't think that makes a difference to the plugs at all.

I don't know if you're an Alfa Romeo Owners Club Member, but if you are join the forum on their site, there's a very recent thread on people's plug points of view!

Both Golden Lodge and the recommended NGKs are available from Alfaholics

Hello,
well I think I'm just the man to answer your questions as am an NGK employee.

The plugs you have fitted are the correct ones for your car. Why do you have concerns about the heat range?

Hi Guys
I guess I want to run what's right for this engine - The car does not burn oil, or run too rich, judging by the colour of the plugs when run, so there is no fouling issue, and therefore, no reason I can see to run hotter plugs than 'normal'. I don't want to do an extended run and end up causing internal engine damage. Tej, I will defer to your far superior wisdom in this instance !! Am I right to be concerned about the heat range and tip projection ?

Apologies for the delay as I have been on lunch.

Various literature around the globe will specify differing heat ranges depending on the climate. 7 or 6 heat range is used in most engines including your Alfa. You are correct to question this factor as running a 'hotter' plug than specified sometimes causes problems for owners. Usually moving 1 digit hotter does not cause any engine damage but on a long run it is not ideal. If you are looking to change the plugs then I would suggest fitting the 7 heat range as Mr. Miles has fitted in his vehicle. The only thing that can go wrong is that you will experience very slight misfiring due to the plug tip fouling up with carbon deposits as it is not retaining heat to burn them off. This will then tell you that you need to use 6 heat range plugs as your particular vehicle runs better on them. It could be the reason that they were fitted in your engine in the past.

The projected plugs are generally better as they push the spark position closer to the piston which improves throttle reponse. In the '60s manufacturers started using projected plugs as they had not been around for long so this is why some vehicles with the same engines list different plugs as standard equipment. The Bosch super 4 items that Mr. Miles has fitted are actually more projected that B7ES but not as much as BP7ES. The difference is approx 2mm which actually will make no difference. I would personally stick with the projected type if it has been fitted currently but would not fit plugs with more ground electrodes such as the super 4. It is ideal that the initial ignition of the inlet charge happen with minimum material getting in the way of the expanding 'explosion' so more force is transferred to the piston face. The more ground electrodes that are present absorb more of this energy, so they are not the best plugs to fit IMHO. The only benefit of them is that they will last longer than a single ground electrode plug, that's it. The best plugs are Platinum or Iridium types as they have very sharp electrodes which means even less material in the way than a standard plug.

So basically, try the 7s if they foul up, you know to go back to 6s. The projection issue is something I would stick with but it's your choice at the end of the day.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Tej

That's the most complete, concise reply to a tech question I ever received ! Thanks for passing along your know-how, and hope others have also benefited from reading your advice.
Cheers, and TGIF !!

You're welcome sir and hope you have a pleasant weekend. We are apparently going to see some sun like last weekend TGIF indeed!!!!

For what it's worth - here are my recent findings on the spark plug issue.

My '75 1600 Spider has been running fine since I bought it a few months ago but out of habit i recently replaced all the ignition bits - just for peace of mind really. Nothing made much difference to the general running of the car - but just last Wed. I changed the spark plugs (later than everything else and done in isolation). I bought the car with some Bosch plugs fitted - can't remember the exact type, but I was a little concerned because you don't tend to hear about Bosch plugs being used on old Alfa twin cams. Anyway, I replaced them with a set of Lodge 2HL's.

The change to these plugs has made a big difference to the smoothness of the engine. It's difficult to describe in words but the engine is much nicer to drive and more willing to rev.

Now it may be that the original Bosch ones were on their last legs but it wasn't obvious.

the point i'm trying to make is that sometimes the specs/temp range info doesn't tell you the real story. For whatever reason those Lodge plugs seem to work well with the Alfa twin cam engine - and I for one will be buying a few more sets while they are still available.

Just to give a bit more information, Lodge 2HL is the same spec as NGK B7ES.......

Originally Posted by TEJ

Just to give a bit more information, Lodge 2HL is the same spec as NGK B7ES.......

Except the Golden Lodge 2HL ( as recommended and factory fitted from new on these cars by Alfa Romeo ) has 4 ground electrodes whereas the NGK B7ES only has 1

Hmmm.......Really? Strange that Alfa specified 4 ground electrode plugs for these particular applications. That's what manufacturers used in earlier days to extend service life, I'll have to research why they did as it's not ideal from a oerformance point of view, and that's what matters in Alfas! Fair enough they will last longer than a single ground electrode plug but ignigion is not better. Lodge 2HL cross refers to a B7ES in any list that can be found. I suppose there are so many plugs (from all manufacturers) with 14mm thread diameter, 19mm reach, 1.25mm pitch, 20.8mm Hex blah blah blah that the options are endless. At the end of the day, the latest technology is Iridium/Platinum plugs with very sharp, small electrodes which offer the best performance. These have minimum material possible in order to give the best possible spark as the resulting flame needs to be able to expand with nothing in it's way. So a single tapered ground electode is also featured on these. These type of plugs are also very long lasting but are also quite expensive as platinum and Iridium are not cheap metals. The 4 ground electrode plug is the cheaper route of extending a plug's service life and offers no other benefit, this is the only reason they exist in the first place as we all know manufacturers have to keep costs down. So basically, a NGK B7ES is the same as a Lodge 2HL as most owners will change them at the 'normal' service intervals anyway.

Many things technical change for the better (and some for the worse), no dough spark plugs have been improved in the 50 years, since the Alfa Nord engine was designed and developed. Back then, and for a good number of years after, it was considered good practice by Alfisti and Alfa mechanics solely to use Lodge 2HL plugs. Many pistons had holes burned in there tops by other brands of plugs, which were listed as suitable for Alfa Nord engines in the manufactures list of applications. And, surely, by wrong type of plugs, as well.
Years back, when I started driving Alfas with the Nord engine (and boxer engines) I wouldn’t fit other than the right type of Lodge plugs in them. But now, in my classico 1970 Alfa 1750 engine, I have driven with both Lodge 2HL and NGK B7ES (+ B9ES for long holyday trips, and daily afterwards, from laziness), and I can’t feel any difference either in performance or smoothness.
But I wouldn’t fit the longer tipped BP6ES or BP7ES for fear of burned pistons.
In my modern 155 and 156 2.0 I have followed the Alfa recommendation of NGK plugs (don’t remember the type) although the 8 pieces cost a slight fortune and don’t last the promised 60k miles. They tent to be changed with the cam belt every 25-30k miles I do in the 3 years between changes.
Erik

I would not use Golden Lodge spark plugs as they are very prone to fouling or they were in my late '70s early '80s Alfa Romeos. My last one , an Alfetta GTV 2.0 , I owned for 19 years, from 1983.

I have a preference for Splitfire spark plugs. I found these to give a better idle and much less prone to fouling than other plugs I tried .

I especially Like the Splitfire plugs in combination with a Jacobs ignition coil

Originally Posted by Stori

I would not use Golden Lodge spark plugs as they are very prone to fouling or they were in my late '70s early '80s Alfa Romeos.

You ain't driving fast enough Never heard of an Italian tune up?

Originally Posted by TEJ

Hmmm.......Really? Strange that Alfa specified 4 ground electrode plugs for these particular applications. That's what manufacturers used in earlier days to extend service life, I'll have to research why they did as it's not ideal from a oerformance point of view, and that's what matters in Alfas! Fair enough they will last longer than a single ground electrode plug but ignigion is not better. Lodge 2HL cross refers to a B7ES in any list that can be found. I suppose there are so many plugs (from all manufacturers) with 14mm thread diameter, 19mm reach, 1.25mm pitch, 20.8mm Hex blah blah blah that the options are endless. At the end of the day, the latest technology is Iridium/Platinum plugs with very sharp, small electrodes which offer the best performance. These have minimum material possible in order to give the best possible spark as the resulting flame needs to be able to expand with nothing in it's way. So a single tapered ground electode is also featured on these. These type of plugs are also very long lasting but are also quite expensive as platinum and Iridium are not cheap metals. The 4 ground electrode plug is the cheaper route of extending a plug's service life and offers no other benefit, this is the only reason they exist in the first place as we all know manufacturers have to keep costs down. So basically, a NGK B7ES is the same as a Lodge 2HL as most owners will change them at the 'normal' service intervals anyway.

Hi guys,
I'm newebie on this forum and this is my first post.
I drive Alfa 2000 Spider 1975 with BP6ES plugs. I don't have any experience driving with other plugs but I'd like to compare tham with Iridium/Platinum plugs. May you recommend me something for my Alfa please ? (but not Lodge, not easy to get here)

Originally Posted by Cosmo

You ain't driving fast enough Never heard of an Italian tune up?

I suspect that the only reason that you need the Italian tune up is because of the 'crappy' Golden Lodge' plugs

The car always went better if you reved it out no matter what pulgs were used, but when you have to do a lot of city driving , fouling plugs are not much fun so a safety margin is nice.

Originally Posted by Stori

I suspect that the only reason that you need the Italian tune up is because of the 'crappy' Golden Lodge' plugs

Well my V12 Jag also benefits from it as well and that is running the latest, small electrode technology plugs.

Originally Posted by ratcat

Hi guys,
I'm newebie on this forum and this is my first post.
I drive Alfa 2000 Spider 1975 with BP6ES plugs. I don't have any experience driving with other plugs but I'd like to compare tham with Iridium/Platinum plugs. May you recommend me something for my Alfa please ? (but not Lodge, not easy to get here)

If you have BP6ES fitted, the the Iridium equivalent is BPR6EIX and the Platinum type is BP6EVX. I would go for the Iridium as it's not much more expensive than the Plat type and lasts much longer, and offers better performance. Use these only if you are running BP6ES

Originally Posted by TEJ

If you have BP6ES fitted, the the Iridium equivalent is BPR6EIX and the Platinum type is BP6EVX. I would go for the Iridium as it's not much more expensive than the Plat type and lasts much longer, and offers better performance. Use these only if you are running BP6ES

Thank you TEJ.
I try Iridium one as you recommended.
The next step I'm planing is to change exhaust manifold to performance headers and stock air filter to K&N sport air filter.

What a great informative thread!

I am about to try NGK BP7ES plugs and would appreciate advice on the gap setting for a 1972 2000 Spider.

In fact it would be useful to know what gap to set the other plugs that can be fitted.

Thanks.