Further Barke Problems

Originally Posted by Wrenched

One sign is if the pedal hardens up immediately the engine is off or if you get one or two pumps before exhausting the vacuum. Of course with 2 servos there will be a much less definite point where the pedal hardens.

This is another thing - the pedal never gets any harder when you pump the pedal after immediately turning off the engine. The pedal always feels the same, no matter how many times you pump the pedal - which is why I've always sort of expected the problem to be somehow due to the servos .

[quote=philmiles83;1275791]The pedal always feels the same/QUOTE]
That's certainly fishy, well it is if it's a boat tailed spider anyway.
Sorry.

Originally Posted by Wrenched

Originally Posted by philmiles83

The pedal always feels the same

That's certainly fishy, well it is if it's a boat tailed spider anyway.
Sorry.

It's definitely fishy!

"He has noted that the rear brakes come on before the front ones bite, and this concurrs with the fact that the car tries to spin when you do an emergency stop (rear wheels lock up at same time -if not before - the front ones). This suggests an incorrect brake bias, or possibly a 'lazy' front servo. I had a new regulator valve put on before, so maybe this is faulty..."

Someone once told me that when troubleshooting a problem, it's worth remembering "what's the last thing I touched?"

Rear brakes come on first does NOT sound right - it almost sounds as though the regulator is plumbed in 'backwards', ie it biases towards the rears before the fronts. That is the opposite of how this device is supposed to work, as far as I know - quoting the manual, "[the regulator] ensures that under heavy braking, a greater proportion of the effort is applied to the front wheels and so prevents the rear brakes from locking the wheels under these conditions."
Just my £.02 worth...

Originally Posted by garwood1

"He has noted that the rear brakes come on before the front ones bite, and this concurrs with the fact that the car tries to spin when you do an emergency stop (rear wheels lock up at same time -if not before - the front ones). This suggests an incorrect brake bias, or possibly a 'lazy' front servo. I had a new regulator valve put on before, so maybe this is faulty..."

Someone once told me that when troubleshooting a problem, it's worth remembering "what's the last thing I touched?"

Rear brakes come on first does NOT sound right - it almost sounds as though the regulator is plumbed in 'backwards', ie it biases towards the rears before the fronts. That is the opposite of how this device is supposed to work, as far as I know - quoting the manual, "[the regulator] ensures that under heavy braking, a greater proportion of the effort is applied to the front wheels ans so prevents the rear brakes from locking the wheels under these conditions."
Just my £.02 worth...

That was the first thing that I thought too. But after speaking to Ian Ellis, it sounds like it is plumbed in the right way round. There are two arrows on it, at 90 degrees to each other. At the moment one points in the direction of the fluid flow, and the other up to the sky. I (we) think that this is right. Ate (the manufacturers) have no uk number to check. Tom at BLS (the garage doing the work) is going to ring Richard at Alfaholics to have a chat about it, and the swap of the master cylinder.

Why is nothing in life ever simple.......

Originally Posted by philmiles83

That was the first thing that I thought too. But after speaking to Ian Ellis, it sounds like it is plumbed in the right way round. There are two arrows on it, at 90 degrees to each other. At the moment one points in the direction of the fluid flow, and the other up to the sky. I (we) think that this is right. Ate (the manufacturers) have no uk number to check. Tom at BLS (the garage doing the work) is going to ring Richard at Alfaholics to have a chat about it, and the swap of the master cylinder.

Why is nothing in life ever simple.......

Erm.... because you bought an old Alfa?

Originally Posted by VeloceMitch

Erm.... because you bought an old Alfa?

That could just be it....!!!

It's such a gorgeous car though...

SO...what was the verdict ? Did they get to the root of the problem ? Waiting to hear your (hopefully favourable / inexpensive) outcome..

Unfortunately the car is still at the workshop! After speaking to Ian Ellis we decided to swap the M/C for another and to strip the current one down (even though it is only a few weeks old!!). Apparently the spring corresponding to the rear brake circuit is substantially weaker than it should be, thus leading to the hot rear wheels as the rear brakes bite before the fronts. I'm hoping that the next M/C is one of the few good ones around, and that it actually works properly leading to a correct brake bias and resolves the fact that the brakes are so inconsistent when not being used in emergency situations (i.e. normal driving).
Also as a stand by are two new servos which will be plumbed in if the brakes still feel strange. Last resort after this (unfortunately) is to convert to a single circuit Girling setup - which I really don't want to do really .

Will keep you posted - I'm hoping to get the car back before Winter completely sets in.......

Who was it who remarked about suspecting the thing that was last changed?
No winter near here yet, won't allow it.

Well guys. Have just spoken to Tom at BLS, the car now has a replacement DC M/C and two brand new servos (ouch). He said the car has an extremely good pedal, and he was just about to take it out for a long run to see how it acted in emergency situations and in normal traffic (where the problem previously showed itself).
It has also had a new rear pinion seal put on (apparently the old one was not on straight, hence the leak). Also the carburettors have been tuned up.
I await the phone call to say that it is all okay...............and ready to pick up. I am not looking forward to the bill

great stuff, hope this finally cures it all and cost isn't too bad.

Originally Posted by VeloceMitch

great stuff, hope this finally cures it all and cost isn't too bad.

Me too. I'm actually very excited about (hopefully) picking it up, as the brakes have never been right ever since I've had it. I may finally be able to drive it without that constant wory in the back of my head that the brakes might fail!

Here's hoping - and maybe I'll make it to National Alfa Day next year!!!

Originally Posted by philmiles83

Me too. I'm actually very excited about (hopefully) picking it up, as the brakes have never been right ever since I've had it. I may finally be able to drive it without that constant wory in the back of my head that the brakes might fail!

Here's hoping - and maybe I'll make it to National Alfa Day next year!!!

A Happy ending??? , Never mind next year, how about a celebratory run to Auto Italia @ The Heritage Motor Museum @ Gaydon in Warwickshire tomorrow (23/09/2007) ????

Originally Posted by Green Berlina

A Happy ending??? , Never mind next year, how about a celebratory run to Auto Italia @ The Heritage Motor Museum @ Gaydon in Warwickshire tomorrow (23/09/2007) ????

I think I was too quick off the mark......car still in garage - I'm taking it that Tom's test drive on Thursday afternoon with all its new parts didn't go so well . I'll ring him tomorrow and see how the car is.

How was Auto Italia @ Gaydon - I'd have loved to have come.

Will let you know how the car is tomorrow....

Woohoo!! Have spoken to Tom at BLS, and after the extensive road test on Thursday of last week the brakes seemed absolutely fine, with no hint of loss of pedal at low speed or anything like that - so this is excellent news.

The reason I still have no car is that the pinion flange on the rear diff still leaks after the new seal has been put on, so the rear axle has been taken to an engineer to have the seal surface polished to remove some fine scratches that were present. Hopefully this will cure this problem.

The carbuettors have also been balanced - apparently they were so far out of tune that it was a wonder the car was running! Although now it seems that the engine runs smoother than ever.

Hopefully will pick up the car next week - crossing fingers for some late Autumn sunshine!!

Phil, I hope this is the end of your misery at last, and that you can finally get your car home, enjoy a few blasts down the lanes during this autumn. I hope to be able to learn from your experiences...

Thanks Garwood! Lets hope that the problems that I have had will be able to help some other out too!

Here's to some motoring after all the patience.
Would I be right in thinking that Auto Italia is a Stanford Hall on June 8th next year or is that something else/rotten rumour? Sorry I missed it - almost literally round the corner at Gaydon.

Originally Posted by Wrenched

Here's to some motoring after all the patience.
Would I be right in thinking that Auto Italia is a Stanford Hall on June 8th next year or is that something else/rotten rumour?

Would be good if it was as Leicestershire is a bit closer for me than Gaydon - although as a Land Rover fan with a Series III and a Range Rover (is that allowed on this forum??!!) I would have loved to have gone to Gaydon this year!

Maybe I'll win a prize for the most troublesome brakes on any car ever made....!!!