Buying 1969 Spider boat tail - what should I look out for?

I am going to look at a 1969 Spider 1750 boat tail supposedly in superior condition and it is quite pricey for it's age.

Anyone any good advice on what to be on the lookout for on this model? Are spare parts still readily available?

Thanks
John

Hi. The AROC UK forum has a good buyers guide made up by the members, but as it is only available on line to members I am not sure if a link will work but try it anyway.
link

If it doesn't work I will cut and paste some of the good bits for you.

Most mechanical bits are available here in the UK, try searching for;

EB Spares
Classic Alfa
Alfaholics
Highwood Alfa

They all carry spares mostly with on line shopping, I am sure they will post out to RSA, but obviously it will cost above UK rates.

The main thing as with any classic Alfa is the body, buy ther best you can, your climate will help in that respect. Mechanical bits are easier to fix and are also fairly robust.

Good luck.

Thanks for the input Mitch.

I had a look and good drive in it this afternoon. It was not quite a good as the owner made out in the advert but then it is 37 years old. Body work was pretty good with what looks like a couple of rust bubbles on the left side under where the bonnet sits, but these look very old and the orginal paint is still adhering. A few small "paint starbursts" on the main bodywork but no visible rust on it, and the sills and inside the boot is also rust free. The car has been in a garage for most of it's life and has done 70,000 miles. The instrumentation looks as good as new, but the the drivers seat is well worn so I don't know if mileage is correct. Windshield has a crack and needs replacing - don't know if thats going te be expensive. Soft top looks ok too.

Problem is that the present owner is comparing his car's price to a mint condition or refurbished classic and I'm not sure it is worth that much as some original items are missing, like the original wooden steering wheel, just a black off the shelf one that does not support indicator cancelling, etc. But it drives nicely. Asking price is equivalent to about 5,000 UKPound. Does that sound a lot?

I have an Alfa147 2l and am weighing the options of keeping it and buying the spider as a toy or trading up to a newer spider.

Hi John

for a mint 1750 Boattail you should be looking to pay between R 75 and 85 K. So-so examples can be had for as little as 45 K.
Spares etc. can be found locally, and some workshops will import anything you need.
Mitch's list of suppliers above are the global suppliers of these spares, and they are a good place to compare prices etc.
Depending on what you want to spend, the car you are looking to buy will be a good investment, but be aware that most of the good examples in SA have found their way to the UK or Europe.

Where do you live, it may be worth your while to chat to a few "local" shops to get the spares you would require.
Join ARCSA (www.arcsa.co.za) if you are not already a member, plenty of people willing to help around.

Thanks Eric

I live in Cape Town, where are you?

This model is far from mint condition (despite the current owners very biased opinion). It falls into the so-so category.

It definately needs a new windscreen, and phoning around has proven that nothing is readily available in SA. Also needs a new front right tyre and wheel alignment to pass roadworthy as it is bald on the outside and brand new on 2/3 of the tyre. Some people just never look at these things! Not sure what else may be a problem. I don't think it has had much TLC in the past 10 years! Having said that it goes well and feels pretty tight all round - steering, suspension, brakes, gearbox, engine all seem sweet enough.

The full asking price is Rk55 but he is willing to go down to Rk47.5 without a roadworthy (he's not interested in getting it roadworthied), but I really think it is only worth Rk40. He claims to have rejected offers of Rk45 and he thinks a really good example is worth up to Rk120+ which I seriously doubt.

I have very little experience with classic cars and a friend in the MG club is helping me with advice on condition etc. I am not really looking to do a complete renovation as I lack the time or skills, but am happy to slowly repair or replace anything that looks tatty (like the wing mirror, gear stick boot, and can live with the body work condition which should look ok after a good polish.

I will look into ARCSA membership - especially if I buy the Spider! Which model do you have?

Any further advice will be most welcome.

Thanks
John

Hi John

I live in Johannesburg.

I would offer him 40 K, and leave it at that. If he's desperate he'll call you back.
Through ARCSA you could find info about spares.
A friend of mine (Colin) is busy resoring a boattail as well, I will send you a PM with his info, so you can pick his brain as well.

My spider is a 76 Kamm-tail. I would have loved a 69 boattail, but spares availability etc. made the choice for me. I hunted for this car for four months, as I specifically wanted the "lime green" one (only about three/four of them around in this colour).

the 70's cars may not be as collectable (yet) , but they are far cheaper to maintain, and get parts for. Investigate this option (and get a RHD).
Cape Town Alfa club are affiliated with ARCSA, so join them, some very good people there. Their link is also on the ARCSA page.

Whatever you choose to do, owning a Spider is fantastic, and you live in CPT, what better place could there be to drive around in a open-top classic car ?

JM

Gorgeous cars. I'm just finishing off a full rebuild, documented here: www.gausie.com/spider/smash/

The major bodyshell rust problems are: front outer corners of footwell, sills, sills, sills and spare wheelwell.

Body Parts are readily available - except for the rear wings and bootlid.

Check that the nose has the little bump above the grille - if it doesnt it's had a poor repair in the past.

Engine wise, there's usually nothing to worry about.

Gearbox - the usual alfa 2nd gear probs.

Interior trim - all parts readily available from Richard at www.classicalfa.com

Windscreen - costs about £100.

Good luck

Gausie

jmorgan,

While Gausie may be technically correct, his advice may not work for you. Don't take somebody's word that "parts are out there" -- especially if the parts are in a different country. Just because parts exist somewhere in the world, it doesn't mean you'll be able to either a) get your hands on them or b) even afford them. Gausie has the benefit of living within a large, economic trading block. You're outside that block. Keep that in mind. Besides general availability and price, you've got to worry about exchange, import duties and taxes (if they are applicable in your country) and shipping. Sometimes that all adds up to not being able to get the parts you need.

Here's just one real life example: ideally I would like to replace the windshield on my spider. I tracked one down in California, but when I inquired about shipping, I was told in no uncertain terms that the seller (a major Alfa parts dealer) would not ship a windshield that far, as he didn't want to be responsible for any damage. Even after I said I would take the responsibility for possible damages (and arrange for the insurance), he said there was no way in Hades that he would even take the time to figure out how to pack a windshield to withstand long haul shipment. It just wasn't worth his time and effort. Now that was just one tiny windshield. That wasn't a couple of fenders and a bumper.

Now usually when I buy parts from the States, I buy them (legally) in such a way that I'm not required to pay import duties and taxes on them, but even though I jump through all the legal hoops and fill out all the paperwork, I still always end up fighting with customs agencies and delivery companies about duties and taxes I supposedly owe. In the end, I'm always able to prove my case, but it's always a major, time-consuming, nerve-fraying, frustrating experience.

Seriously, before buying the car, take an inventory of what parts you think will need replacing -- you won't get them all, but you'll get enough of an idea to get you started -- and then start phoning around for parts. Try to get a sense of what is available and what isn't, and how much it will wind up costing you. Honestly, I'd expect parts for a boat-tail to be pricier and harder to find than parts for later, square-tailed spiders.

(Ah, I just looked back at your post and I see that you've already started that process. Good. The only way to go into old car ownership is with your eyes completely open and with a strong idea of just how much abuse your wallet can stand.)

Good luck with the car shopping.
--Toronto

Hi John

Check the classifieds section on www.arcsa.co.za , there is a VERY good boattail for sale for 65 K. you might have to fly up to JHB for the car, but it would be a much better deal, as this car is confirmed to be in excellent condition.

Alternatively, follow Tor's advice and do what I did. Compromise and get a Kamm-tail. Newer, arguably better( maybe not as collectable though) and much easier to get parts for.

Thanks Eric - I saw the add at ARCSA after your previous post about the website. I have no doubt that the Kamm-Tail on offer is very good but the boat tail is a real classic. I am currently letting the owner stew for a while as he cannot find a buyer at his asking price and needs to be rid of it as he needs his garage for his "daily car" as he lives in a block of flats in Kloofnek with lots of nice eateries around and so limited on-street parking. I intend to get back to him in a few weeks to see if he is ready to deal realitsically. I have priced the parts needed to bring it up to scratch and they are readily available in the UK and I reckon Rk5-Rk10 should be enough to get it sorted including a good paint and chrome touch up, professional valet. I am prepared to hold out.

Luckily I have my 147 to fall back on

I visit Jhb from time to time and will give the alfa guys a look in if I don't come right.

Cheers
John

John

The add on ARCSA's page is for a fully restored 1967 Boattail, for 65 K......keep that in mind. You woun't have to spend much additionally.

Good luck anyway, I hope the owner of the car you are looking at caves in soon.....You'll love Spider ownership...

Thanks for putting me right Eric

I have made contact with the Duetto owner and we are trying to see if we can make a deal. He is still battling to sell it and is now trying to get a dealer to buy it but they want to offer him peanuts.

Pity it's in Jhb but it might be worth the trip to see it and get it railed down to CT at the right price

Cheers
John

Hi John,

Curious to know why you are choosing to go for the boat tail Spider and why you are not considering buying a Spider S4 which you could use as an everyday car.

By choosing the boat tail you say that you will have to keep your 147.

Why not sell the 147, buy a 1990-93 Spider S4 with under 50k on the clock and enjoy trouble free motoring without the expense of running two cars?

I was really looking for a classic car as a "toy" to drive on fair weather days. In South Africa at least we have a few of them! But we also have some problems with theft and vandalism, not to mention hijacking. So I thought it better to keep my 147 for general use as I feel ok about parking or driving it just about anywhere, but a soft top Spider might not be such a good option as I would not like to just "park it and go" in a dodgy place.

I also need 4 proper seats occasionally.

As for selling the 147, it is a selespeed and the market place is terrified of them for some reason. I wish now that I had bought the manual version and would be able to get a decent price for it. I have been offered peanuts for it so far.

I am open to your suggestion though.

PS the R65,000 boat tail Eric put me onto was sold to a dealer for R47,500 yesterday - I left it a bit too late

Thanks
John