1972 Alfa Spider will not restart when hot

Hi all.
Looking for some information or HELP !.

My nephew has a 1972 Alfa Spider,the car has been parked up for seven years since it developed a fault and the AA towed it back to Durham .As he works away in London it is only now that he has the money and space to have the car repaired.Once the car is repaired he will again take it to London and use it daily
I was asked to see if the car could be put back on the road again.
Well it seem that the timing chain jumped due to a spring snapping on the tensioner ,thankfully there was no damage to the engine.The mechanic has the car running and all the brakes replaced ect, its ready for an MOT.
For some reason the car will not restart after a run till it cools down.It will jump start ,but refuses to start from the key when hot.
The workshop manual is of no help,the mechanic has tried the usual things with no luck.The cars just been returned from an engine tuner who was unable to pin point the problem,most who see the engine just scratch their heads(most say it looks more like a diesel set up than a petrol one)
Any suggestions ??????????
Thanks for your time
Nigel

Hi Nigel, love to help but I feel a bit stumped with my slender knowledge. It could be something simple like faulty plug leads, maybe they are fine when cool but don't like it when hot.
Just give us some more background
does it turn over?
Have you got a spark?, take a plug out, short it against the block and turn the engine on the starter, you should see a good spark (Or get electrocuted which is OK as well! ).
I presume the Car is on Carbs, some ex USA cars have fuel injection.
Is the car flooding?, they have a mechanical fuel pump, if it doesn't spark it will pump fuel in and flood.
Are the choke settings right?, a carb fed Alfa engine won't need any choke to start, but if it is set wrong and stuck open it might cuse problems.

I don't want to be too unkind to the people who have looked at it, but to believe it set up like a diesel, they must have very little knowledge on classic cars. Why do they say that?, perhaps it has the US spec Spika mechanical fuel injection, if this is the case you may well want to scan ebay for a pair of Webers and the appropriate manifold.

Are there any geniune Alfa specialist around you (Not modern main dealers, forget them for a classic), further south at York, Alwyn Kershaws are good, I know of a restorer in Middlesborough, but I think he is more of a body man.

After being stood for so long I wonder if the carbs need an overaul??

But, all of Mitch's questions are valid...and the engine I think should be straight forward for any mechanic...amazing the amount of shivers the word "Alfa" sends down some mechanics spines

wrinx

This is probably rubbish, but could it be a starter motor problem? i.e. the starter motor is overheating with heat from the engine and refusing to work, hence bump-starting being effective?

Hi again,
Thanks for the replies ,the vehicle is a US spec car from Calafoinia.
It also has the US spec Spika mechanical fuel injection,as I say the car starts well from cold with the key.Once on the road its a dream to drive,but stop,turn off and attempt to restart it's having none of it.
The plugs leads have all been renewed ,the local Alfa main dealer had serviced the car 8-9 years ago.When ever it returned from the main dealer it had more faults than ever.
If you can think of any more questions I can ask the mechanic or advice I can pass on to him I would be grateful.The mechanic services my Land Rover ,and I know over the years to my perril how problomatic they can be at times.(300 series timing problems,water /oil leaks)
Thanks for yor help so far Lads.
Nigel

Before I had the rubber mounts replaced on the carbs of my Bertie, it used to be a problem starting from hot, it seems better since. A Garage used to Classic Ferrari's etc told me this was a feature of Webbers and Del Orto Carbs and the best way to start it warm, was to put the accelerator 1/2 to 3/4 of the way to the floor and just churn the starter for upto a minute (doesn't feel right after modern motors) but it always worked, thats if you've done all Mitch's checks ok and it has Carbs

If it hasn't got carbs proably best to ignore the above

Thanks alfatastic for your reply,carbs might have been easier to sort.I'm okay doing brakes,oil ect on my own cars but after that I'm lost.
Thanks again

Spika fuel injection is a very specialised field, it was never available in the UK, except I think on the V8 Montreal. I will make some enquiries for you on the club forum, but my guess is it's the fuel injection.
That was what the guy's meant by 'a diesel set up' it's mechanical pump a bit like a diesel pump.
Seriously I think you might want to try and find some carbs in the long run.

Tor might be the expert on here, and would probably urge you to keep the SPICA. In fact, if you do a forum search for SPICA you might find a post of Tor's from ages back about the decision to keep the SPICA set-up. It certainly convinced me. I think the gist was, initially problematic, but perfectly suited to the style and feel of the car/engine.

hmmm...

I don't know of any SPICA specialists in the UK, the car being from California also adds complexity becuase they had more draconian emmissions controls over the rest of the states. So there are probably extra bits over a "normal" spica car.

I would suggest you give the following people a call for advice, unfortunately they are all "darn sarf" but they may be able to point you in the right direction.

Classic Alfa - 020 8693 0707
Ian Ellis - 01273 857077

JaB

Supposedly the FI system has a manual fuel/air setting lever to maintain a constant fuel/air ratio as seasonal temperatures change.

F -ambient temps below 0C
C-ambient temp between 0-15C
N-ambient temps above 15C


Worth a check -if you can find the lever which should be on top of the FI pump, assuming there is one

A known heat related problem withSpica FI in temps above 32C is caused by the pump heating the fuel as it compressed and causing the fuel which is dumped back into the fuel tank to get hot. This results in leaning out of the fuel mixture and the car stalls. Leaving for 1/2 and hour or so allows the fuel to cool and you can restart. Alfa fixed this by using a submered pump to feed the main pump.

After rereading your post I noticed "It will jump start ,but refuses to start from the key when hot."
Does this mean pushing the car to start or using a secondary battery?
If pushing the car..does the engine crank over on the ignition when hot when you try starting using ignition key??

Hi again,
By jump starting ,I should really mean bump starting (clutch in ,select second gear,push ect)sorry for confusion my fault.
The other information ,phone numbers ect ,I will pass on to the mechanic.
The mechanic is a hands on lad with over thirty years experience,he has even owned a few Alfas in his time.With him its none of this just plug in and read print outs ,though he has all these facilities.
He says he has checked everything you would on a car for the type of problem this car appears to have.
All the other mechanics and engine people he knows are at a loss.
He did say that there is a pump which the book/maunal says should not be adjusted ,this appears to have been tampered with as the adjusting screw is well worn.
Once again thanks for your help the more info I can suppy to him the more he can rule out.The Spica system is an unknown and its only the work shop manual he has for guidance.

My post on the 105 section of the AROC site hasn't had any replies yet, 11 views though, which say's something .

Spica is very much an unknown quantity over here.
We aren't supposed to publicise other alfa forums on here, but try

www.alfabb.com

Thats a mainly USA based site and they are very knowledgable, spica is well known to them, they may give you some pointers.

Probably not much use at the moment but another source is Pat Braden's 'Alfa Romeo bible' it's a usefull book and has practicaly a whole chapter on Spica.
Link here
Amazon


I remember the thread that Toronto spider ran about keeping his Spica, it probably makes sense on the other side of the pond, but over here it's differant, emissions are not a problem, Carbs are much easier to maintain as we still have a network of good specialists, I still maintain you should plan to swap it over to a pair of Webers or Delorto's, they produce better performance as well.

Which Engine size is it by the way, 1600, 1750 or 2000?.

Hi Velocemitch,
Thanks for the info and its a 2000cc Spider.
Nigel

Originally Posted by VeloceMitch

Spica is very much an unknown quantity over here.
We aren't supposed to p