GT 1300 Junior for sale

Welcome to the 'I am biased towards 1750's' thread

Very interesting read guys,i appreciate your expertise.
Could someone possibly show me the difference between the stepfront from the other models via some piccies.

This is a stepfront?I notice they have no front bar

I read somewhere else that the first of the 2 photos below is a stepfront while the other is not.They are both GT junior's,series 2 &3 respectively.However i am having trouble isolating the stepfront feature of this car.

The "stepfront" is the line you can see at the front of the bonnet on the first photo. It is slightly higher, causing a "step"

wrinx

It just looks like a raised hood line?

Originally Posted by jozza

It just looks like a raised hood line?

Yep - that what the step is.

In my opinion a nice original 2000 GTV is what you need - nicer to own and easier to sell.
Personally I don't like the step front design as I consider it ungainly and overly fussy. However I have grown to prefer the single headlamp grill as in the Ebay one for sale on your first post over the twin headlamp design. The GT1300 Junior grill in the pics looks very classey and discrete.

Originally Posted by Alfaguy

In my opinion a nice original 2000 GTV is what you need - nicer to own and easier to sell.

But you have to put up with heavy handed bumper overriders, huge rear lights, totally over the top grill and hideous dashboard....

I think the 2000 - although quick and LSD equipped - was getting too long in the tooth and all the elegance of the earlier cars was lost.

Best bet is to find the bodyshell and interior you like and then stick in the engine you want.

The 2000GTV dashboard might be the ugliest of the 3 but it was the best, non of the instruments obsured by refections or gearsticks, and face vents for fresh air. I read an article in Classic and Sports car in the early 90's were the journo drove most of the types around Devon for a few days and came to the conclusion that the 2000GTV was the one to live with for day to day motoring. Though he prefered the looks of the others and the more antique feel of the early step fronts saying they were more of a sports car whilst the others more GT car. Even the big ugly rear lights of the 2000GTV are more practical/safer than the earlier ones.

Though people like the 1750 now wasn't it the least popular in turns of numbers sold.

Jozza, the Step front looks like the bonnet is slightly open all the time and also the indicators are outside the lights as opposed to under them in the later cars.

Thank you very much guys for your imput.
Would any of you more mechanically minded fellows mind describing the history and progression of the various engines in the gt/gtv series?
Im guessing the earlier ones were 1300,then 1600 but then i believe it jumped to 2000 before going back to 1750?I regularly hear these engines being described as nord engines.Is this just another name for 1 spark /cycl.? before the ts was introduced in the gta's?Also iv'e noticed a lot of variation with carburaters.
I don't mean to be a pain with a million questions but i'd be silly not to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that you guys possess.
Cheers in advance.

Jozza, I can't claim to be an expert, but I have done a bit of reading since getting hooked on the classic Alfa's. Some of the below might be total Kack, but here goes;
I think the term 'Nord' Engine probably relates to it being built in the North of Italy at Arese near Milan, as appose to in the newer factories in the south.
The Engine is an all Alloy 4 Cylinder Twin overhead Cam unit, driven by duplex chains. It started life in the fifties as a 1300 in the Giuletta and got gradually bigger, 1600, to 1750, to finally 2000. All four sizes were used in the Bertone Coupe's, it isn't the case that they went to 2000 first then back to 1750. They tended to be building all sizes at all times. In the Guilia's the Engine was usually had a single plug per cylinder apart from the GTA's 1.3 and 1.6 which had a twin plug head. Most were fed from twin weber 40's, but some had solex or delorto's. The GTA's had twin Weber 45's. The rare GTA,sa had a 1600 which was supercharged up to 220BHP. American spec cars has Spika fuel injection from 1969 onward mainly for emission reasons they were no more powerfull.

Some power figures for referance
1300 GTj 89BHP 101lb/ft at 3200rpm
1300 GTA (as standard) 96bhp
1300 GTA (race spec) 160 bhp
1600 GT (Sprint junior etc) 109BHP 103lb/ft at 2800rpm
1600 GTA (as standard) 115bhp 119lb/ft at 5500
1600 GTA (Race spec) 170bhp 148lb/ft at 5500
1750 GTV 122bhp 137lb/ft at 2900 rpm
2000 GTV 132bhp 134lb/ft at 3000 rpm

Note the jump in Torque from the 1600's to the 1750's, this makes the car much more relaxed but still very quick for a 60's car. The 2000's are faster still, but allegedly not as smooth.
Note the same basic Engine was still in use in the 155's in twin spark form into the nineties before being replaced by the current Fiat based 1.6 1.8 and 2.0 TS Or JTS) engines.

And the real beauty of all of these engines is that the torque is there right across the rev range - which is very unusual in any engine but is the defining characteristic of this engine.

That's true Guisie
This is a rolling road printout for mine, look at the nice flat torque curve and the max power up at 135BHP, not sure how accurate that is but I like to look at it now and again

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...oad-result.jpg

Link courtesy of Mr Salfa's, hope it works.

wowee velocemitch!! That's a lovely example of what makes these engines such fun!

Jozza - note how the torque is virtually a flat line from 2200 revs right up to 6500 - that's predictable and useable power at virtually any engine speed. On the track this translates to responsive and reliable smooth acceleration and on the road it means you can get out of trouble easily and with a minimum of fuss.

Anyone have a similar graph for a 'modern' engine?

Yep the torque is very impressive indeed Gausie.Looks like you're on a winner with your car there Veloce Mitch.Very interesting that the engine was still used well into the nineties before fiat took over.Im guessing the Milano was the last of the "real" Alfa powered vehicles before things went front wheel drive.
None the less you've given me a lot to think about before purchasing one of these classics.I'm gueesing the Amercian spec Alfa's that were fuel injected did not sound as good as their weber induced cousins.
Now for the eternal question regarding reliability...you knew it was coming
Those of you who have had your classic alfa's for a long period of time can you describe to me the types of problems that on average tend to occur more often than not across the range,if any.Are they the type of problems that can occur without warning leaving you stranded such as electrical issues etc. Or do they relate mainly to mechanical issues?
Thanks guys.

Jozza, I have had mine two years now, it's not my everyday car so it isn't called upon to be ultra reliable, but it's never once failed to start and never failed to complete a journey. The only problems I have had have been a failed water pump seal causing a coolant leak, this needed a new pump at about £40.00, and a faulty Brake servo which caused the brakes to drag. I made this one worse by changing the Servo to an Ebay special which leaked air and made the engine run rough. I had to bite the bullet in the end and bought a new Servo at about £150.00. The master cylinder needed cleaning out as well. BTW the later Cars after about 1971 had twin circuit brakes with dual servo's, these can be an absolute pain to set up.

The seals on the clutch m/c failed as well, but this fortunately happened to the guy who was doing some body restoration work for me, so he fixed it with a new master cylinder.

By far the biggest issue is not reliabilty but rust, this should be less of a problem for you guys down under, but it can be a real problem for us.

Electrical problems are no worse than any other classic, the systems are quite simple but some of the componants are a bit naff (Light assemblies for instance). The mechanical engineering is first class though, OK they are old cars but they were designed and built well, I have over 200.000 Miles on the clock now and although lot's of parts have been changed or overhauled it all still works.