Automatic Alfa GTV 105\115 series Coupes?

[Alfa veloce]

I am a fan of the 105\115 series Coupes and as yet do not own one.
Does anyone have any knowledge of the South African ones that sometimes come on the market with automatic transmission. An automatic sporting Alfa does not seem correct, but as I have not driven one I might be wrong.
Would I be correct in assuming that an automatic version of these cars would be less desirable from a drivers point of view, a collector\owner point of view and should be cheaper to buy than a manual version.
I would appreciate your views and experience and any buying advice and guide prices for these cars.
Cheers

[spiderserie4]

The berlina saloon first received a ZF 3 speed auto from 1971 (designated the 1750A), but it was a failure, very high fuel consumption and slow performance. They made a very few hundred of these before coming to their senses, but yes i suppose nowadays one might have a curiosity value.

As for the bertone coupes, here is a 2000 auto in australia for sale
Gulson Canberra - Home

there are in all 8 automatic 2000 bertone coupes listed in the aussie AR vehicle register.
Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia - Vehicle Register

Not sure how many were built - I should imagine only very limited numbers for the SA and Aussie market.

[Alfa veloce]

Thanks for response and information. It's difficult to find a clean GTV at the best of times, especially here in Ireland. Prices vary hugely even allowing for condition.

[El 4 Romeo]

I would not recommend buying one of these. You can add very rare gearbox parts to high fuel consumption and sluggishness. There have been a number of new buyers complaining about trying to find parts when anything gearbox-related happens. IMHO one of the pleasures of driving a manual 105 is the synergy between gearbox and engine.

[Alfa veloce]

Agree 100% with you, the auto would spoil the experience I feel.

[anglospider]

I can't comment on the GTV specifically but I have an S4 Spider with manual gearbox and another S4 with Auto gearbox. The auto is the ZF three speed gearbox. This was also used in Volvos and BMWs and probably other cars. As far as I know there is no problem getting parts but I haven't seen the posts El 4 Romeo refers to. I spoke to a few auto gearbox specialists prior to buying it and they all said they would be able to overhaul the box if needed.

Which do I prefer driving? On open roads, no question the manual is more fun and I love going through the gears.
In the traffic conditions we have here the auto is much better and I use it a lot, 10,000 miles in the past two years.
Fuel consumption is ca. 32mpg for the manual, 30mpg for the auto. The auto is not sluggish at all but the three speeds takes a bit of getting used to, for a while I kept expecting it to change up to top when it was already there.

An automatic is worth less than the manual as there are fewer potential buyers but don't write off the idea without trying one. You might like it. Not sporting maybe but the car will still be stylish and maybe more practical than a manual if you drive in traffic a lot.

[Alfa veloce]

Thanks for relevant first hand information "anglospider"
Many people would not consider buying\driving certain makes of cars without first trying them and getting a balanced view based on the experience of others.

[El 4 Romeo]

Anglospider, I have no personal experience of the automatic GTV, but two mechanics here in SA shared what I cited earlier. Good luck with the car hunting, alfa veloce!

[Alfa veloce]

Thanks "EI 4 Romeo"

My search here in Ireland has found a 1977 auto 2000 GTV for sale for 11K euro.

Difficult to put a value on an auto GTV even if it drives well it seems overpriced.

[anglospider]

From my experience with the Spiders I'd say the automatic should be about €1k cheaper than a manual in similar condition but I don't follow GTV prices so don't know if €11k is good or bad.
Given that the autos are so much less popular there is nothing to lose in offering a low price, the seller won't have people biting his arm off for the car.

The other advantage of an ex-S.Africa car should be less rust than one that has spent its whole life in your not quite so dry climate.

[spiderserie4]

On the one hand the automatic GTV 2000 is a rare beast - on one forum they were speaking of just 25 automatics being produced - if this is indeed correct, then really rare! If the car is in mint condition for 11000 euros then it might be worth considering - who can claim to have one of 25 alfas produced? (if that number is correct, that is - I somehow doubt it but who knows). One thing is for sure you will not get a mint bertone GTV for 11k - those days are gone.
On the the other hand lots of spares will simply be unobtanium - consider for instance the radiator, easy to find for a normal gtv but for the automatic it has a built in oil cooler for the auto transmission oil, so too I would think the kickdown cable would be nearly impossible to find. I can imagine there is a whole number of things different on an auto alfa, like consoles, maybe speedo drive, sensors to keep the idle correct when in "drive", propshafts, giubos etc, gearbox mounts, bellhousings etc., etc.....

One positive is, you wont have 2nd gear synchro grind!

If the car is local to you, take it for a testdrive and see how you like it..before we all condemn it for you

EDIT/correction: I see on alfa BB one auto owner from SA says there were 200 autos produced - that sounds more like it - still rare compared to the thousands of manuals.
Other differences in the car are the rear axle (different ratio to manual cars) crossmembers, gearbox tunnel sheet metal, no clutch plate obviously, pedal box (no clutch), hydraulic lines etc.....any thoughts (as i admittedly first had!) therefore of converting to manual would soon end up in a nightmarish money pit and you would end up with "neither fish nor fowl" as they say.

[Alfa veloce]

A test drive will answer many questions.
If this can be arranged I will report back to all!

[JUSSI]

I have a 1975 GTV 2000 AUTO imported from South Africa and had initial problems with a kickdown cable which was sorted by adapting one from a MGB with little cost. The 3 speed auto box is a little sluggish but will not embarrass you at the lights. The radiator is standard and I have had no problems with overheating so far, all the parts are readily available, the gearbox is one common to many cars of that time and should not be too difficult to get repaired if needed. I paid £5000 for the GTV but spent quite a lot bringing it up to standard as SA cars can be prone to substandard repairs and servicing ie. no antifreeze can lead to block corrosion. Hope you get your car I really enjoy mine

[spiderserie4]

Interesting where do you get your gearbox oil cooling from? Is there a separate g/box oil cooler.
The auto radiator looks (normally!!) like this (notice extra inlets for oil cooling element built in, arrowed below)
This might have been only on the 1750 berlina auto, though they both share the same ZF 3 speed - the g.box has to get cooling from somewhere, doesn't it......would have thought so!

By the way this 105 auto radiator is fully overhauled and on ebay at the moment if anyone wants the link

[Erik Loye]

Back in the '50's to '70's it was not normal with autobox oil coolers, only cars dragging a Caravan or such had g.box oil coolers retrofitted. How it's now I don't know, but I think they are standard fitments.
Erik

[anglospider]

My Automatic Spider has a separate oil cooler radiator in front of and to one side of the main radiator. Its a bit crowded down there compared with the manual car; aircon compressor and drier, pipework and wiring for aircon and piping for the oil cooler.
There is a separate radiator for the aircon in front of the main radiator too, which restricts airflow to the main radiator.
As a result the electric fans kick in more often than on the manual car.

[Alfa veloce]

This is a great resource and all your posts are helpful.

Fantastic to hear from an existing owner of an auto!