Spider S4 leak from dizzy

[spiderserie4]

The last leak on my alfa was coming from the distributor seal - I wasn't 100% sure so decided to take it off and check, took in all 10 minutes to confirm, plus 10 minutes to put it back on and 1,50€ for the O ring. No more leaks there!
Very easy to do.
1. remove distributor cap and move it out of the way (splash guard too if this is fitted)
2. Note in which direction the rotor points to (drawing or photo helps, as you WILL forget!)
3. Remove 10 mm mounting bolt as in photo 1 (thanks to Vintre on alfabb for this one)
4. Pull out dizzy and look at the leaking oil as in photo 2
5. Stuff a rag down the hole and spray all the nasty oil that has been leaking with brake cleaner so it looks like photo 3
6. throw away old O-ring which has now become hard and useless (like mine!)
7. clean outside of dizzy a little like photo 4
8. Put in 1,50€ O ring (to be seen in photo 3)
9. replace dizzy REMEMBERING where the rotor was pointing to (....you see, you already forgot...!!)
10. Tighten 10mm bolt whilst pushing down on dizzy (as new O ring is fatter and you do not want to stress the 10mm stud!)
11. refit dizzy cap.
NOTE: the S4 dizzy does not have an oil seal on the shaft itself, just on the block and the distributor clamps down on this causing the necessary seal

That was the last engine leak that was annoying me(for now)!

[renone]

A very useful post. Did you apply any gasket sealant between the dizzy and the flange?

[spiderserie4]

no it doesn't need it, the O-ring is such a tight fit when new and is the first port of call for any oil coming up trying to leak out.
And such an easy job too, I am not kidding 10 minutes and a little time to clean things up nicely and 10 to put it back in. My car has 90k miles on it and that was certainly the first time this seal was replaced as it was so hard (I guess the heat causes that)
But, I was worried that I needed a 2nd O-ring on the dizzy shaft itself, because my old 101 sprint had one there (after all why is the groove there, I thought) but a guy on alfabb said it never had one (and when i opened mine it never had one either, so I believe him!)

[renone]

You don't happen to remember the 'O' ring size/ cross section?

[spiderserie4]

I don't have a micrometer, but lying it on a tape measure, and looking with a magnifying glass I get the following from a new spare that I have (I bought 2 just in case I messed one up!!):
32 mm outer diameter
26mm inner diameter
3mm diameter thickness (ie. cross-section)
Profile is round, no flat edges.

[renone]

OK thanks for that. As you probably gathered I have a leak in the same place!

[spiderserie4]

There are a couple of things to point out, as some of you might try to pull off the rotor, as it is the normal thing to do! ( )

Firstly there is no need to touch the rotor, the distributor comes out easily as a unit.
Secondly the rotor on the S4 is glued on from the factory. Yes I know some of you do not have this, and that is because it has been changed by a PO.
General thoughts are there is no need to glue it back on even though alfa and bosch in 1990 said you needed to.

The process to remove the original rotor IF it needs changing (and you do not want to buy the whole unit, as alfa indeed tried to sell you it back then!) is in this TSB (kindly posted by Papajam on the alfabb site) photos of this below:
You have to break it off, ie destroy it

Finding the correct replacement rotor is not that easy. I tried searching for the number listed on the alfa TSB that they say to use (00607 55091) but this came up empty.
Then I searched for the bosch number on my present one, and this after some looking around came up on german ebay - so I have ordered one (for the future! as mine is perfectly OK)
My tip here don't use cheap aftermarket caps or rotors, you save pennies and cause yourself nothing but trouble.

The photo of my original glued on rotor shows the original bosch number:
Bosch 123433 2370 – R1
Alfa 2 litre 164 owners have this same rotor (twin spark 164 models I believe)

hope this is of use.

[papajam]

Excellent write-up, SS4!

I would like the stress the importance of putting the o-ring in the groove in the timing cover, as pictured above, and NOT on the dizzy. If the o-ring is put on the dizzy, it will have been expanded such that it will not fit in the timing cover groove. This will prevent the dizzy from ever fully seating (which can result in the dizzy driven dog disengaging from the oilpump drive slot).

[spiderserie4]

I agree with that Papajam - but it is a real pain to slip the dizzy through the O ring....it is a tight fit and i did not want to score the inside of the O-ring so I ended up putting just a thin film of silicone spray on my finger and putting it on the bottom of the distributor shaft, just to start it off. Once you can start it off, it will slip through....but it is still tight (as it should be I guess to do its job)

I was told by Renone that Polymax said one should ideally use Viton rubber O-rings. Don't know if mine was Viton, but it was from a reputable Alfa supplier so I hope they would think of that. According to their website, the normal NBR nitrile (N70) rubber is good from -30C to +120C whereas the Viton (V75) is good from -20C to +200C.

The leak has stopped in any case and I have a spare if it starts again!

[papajam]

The fact that you have a spare will guaranty that it won't leak!

[renone]

With the kind help of Spiderserie4,(who sent me his spare 0-ring) I have managed to establish that the following is a suitable replacement; Part number BS215V75 at British Standard Size O-rings Seals Viton Rubber BS201-BS284. Alternatively Classic Alfa stock this part (unless they sent me the last one!)

If you are unable to purchase from either source you can try your local supplier quoting International O Ring standard 26.5 x 3.55. The exact specifications for the standard are; Internal Diameter 26.5 +/- 0.26 and cross section 3.55 +/- 0.26. Please remember to ensure that the o-ring is suitable for automotive applications.

[GJ]

Page saved to my Spider folder

Thanks :thumbs

[spiderserie4]

FYI: the bosch rotor i got off german ebay, Bosch 123433 2370 was the correct unit!
this is the guy I got it from who has relisted an identical rotor, in case you cannot find it in the uK! Original bosch in bosch box, not deadly cheap, but the right one, and that is what counts, and super quick service (well to me in Germany that was!)......in fact this is the only place in europe that I have found these rotors. Maybe they are readily available in the UK, but I for one, couldn't find them.
BOSCH 1234332370 Zündverteilerläufer | eBay

I do notice that the stem is thinner than the usual alfa rotors that we are used to......probably because they want you to glue it back on (so the next guy can smash it off!)........all rather amusing really!

PS: have you noticed that everytime you write "ebay" there is generated some stupid general link to the ebay site..........so annoying! I am going to revert to "fleabay" from now on.............like to see what link is generated for that!