Tuning

Will a 2.0 drop straight into a super or ti?

Will the gearbox need swopping?

HOw much power will a 2.0 kick out with some different cams and are there any easy inexpensive way to get more power??

Matt

Yes.

Gearboxes are (I think) interchangeable, but you might want to keep the 2.0 litre car's limited slip diff.

A 2.0 with 10.9mm cams and flowed head should be good for 150 BHP (up from 130) and with 12mm cams and 45mm carbs 170 bhp is possible. 12mm cams will require that you machine the head and it might not be tractable at low revs (i.e. for everyday road use). I've heard of race engies with 200bhp on tap, but you'll need to spend some serious money for that.

Or start with an 8 valve 2.0 Twin Spark.
148bhp as standard.
Tractable 190+ on throttle bodies and mappable ignition.

But only if you can stand the looks...


I think the 1300 gearbox has a lower 5th gear which you might like for track use.

Think id like to keep the classic alfa look of the engine, so is 150 bhp going to be my limit??

Originally Posted by trackmeister

Think id like to keep the classic alfa look of the engine, so is 150 bhp going to be my limit??

Unless you have a big piggy bank, probably.
But don't forget they only weigh a tonne ready to go.

Cams are a better spend of money rather than 45 carbs. Better to put the car on a rolling road and jet the 40's properly... unless you the engine is really tweaky 40's are big enough.

12.9 mm lift cams are plenty enough for road and trackday use.

People often overlook things like their exhaust manifold... a good manifold with optimised primary and secondary lengths will improve gas flow and back pressure, greatly improving the engine. Make sure you don't get sold a 4 into 1 manifold... some people try to flog them as the latest technology, (they are used in Touring Cars because of the revs the cars use).... doesn't work with an Alfa Twin Cam!

If you can afford it why not look at using mapped ignition, distributors are old technology and never work that well with an Alfa twin cam. It not only improves power, but also the drivability of the engine and makes it easier to drive in town at low revs.

1300 gearboxes are nice because of the short 5th

A 2000 diff is nice because of the limo, however, if the car is going to be used on trackdays then the ratio will be too high so acceleration will not be great and you will hardly ever use 5th.
Crown wheel and pinions can be changed to give a lower ratio.... Berlina ratio is the best fast road/trackday ratio, but they are hard to find because of this!
Standard limos will still spin an inside rear wheel out of hairpins or tight chicanes though, so ideally it needs to be 'wound up'. I know a great diff man... trained at Alfa GB and builds all our race diffs.

On the subject of 75 Twin spark engines, they are good 'bangs for your bucks'! Can buy an engine for £50 and it will fit in with all the standard injection (As Dave Hood has done with our old Beige Ti) and only requires a bit of machining to accomodate a clutch on the back of the engine.
With cams, it becomes a very cheap way of getting 160-165 bhp.

However, if you want real power it is hard to get more than 190 from a twin spark... the engine was designed as a road engine so getting more than that requires alot of money. You can get over 200 bhp much more easily out of an old twin cam, i've seen 215bhp on the dyno with 1 engine and it had monster torque! But these are purely race application and such engines cost well over 10k to build!

See what your budget will allow but i reckon the best order is... cams then jetted 40's, limited slip diff wound up with proper ratio, then electronic ignition, then 45's etc......

Remember you can have all the power in the world but if you don't have the right diff to put the power down then the car won't go anywhere!!!

Happy Shopping!

Food for thought................if i was to use a twin spark engine, is the injection system junked and the car put back on carbs?

If the injection system is retained I take it an ECU would then be needed, and if so how is it all wired in?

Finally I need to buy a car, lets hope the Alfa Day at Beuleiu brings some candidates.

Matt

As you might know, i'm building a GTA Replica at the moment, (due back from paint shop next week). I'm using an 8v TwinSpark to power mine. I'm not going to use the standard injection because it won't look nice under the bonnet (but it is the cheapest and easiest root to take).
I'm using 45's and a mapped ignition system with a throttle sensor. The engine is just over 2 litres with forged pistons, i do have a second engine which is identical that hasn't got a home, but neither engine is fully completed yet, i need to do some head work on them first. I'll keep you posted Matt.

Not sure how you would wire the standard injection system into a 105, but i'm sure it isn't too difficult, can only need a power feed, earth from the loom as the rest is part of the whole engine unit, crank sensor etc.....

Yes I think id be looking to go down the carb route.....be interesting to see how your car performs Max, and how easy the installation is, and ultimatly how reliable and easy to keep in tune it is.............

People tend to use the 8 valve Twin Spark out of the 75, as it has come out of a rear wheel drive configuration, and is all alloy... the Fiat based one is an iron block.

But, you can make anything fit anything if you really want to.
Rover V8?

I have no idea.

Engine mounting points is going to be your first worry.
Then positions of ancillaries etc.
And it's going to make a right mess of the legendary poise and balance of a 105 with all it's extra weight.

EB Spares are really getting into 105 Twin Spark conversions.
Perhaps give Kevin a ring and ask?

Originally Posted by RicksAlfas

People tend to use the 8 valve Twin Spark out of the 75, as it has come out of a rear wheel drive configuration, and is all alloy... the Fiat based one is an iron block.

The 8valve unit in the 164 is an all alloy unit, developed from the previous Alfa engines unlike the Q4 which was the Lancia unit and the 16valve that used the fiat bottom end. Hence there are limited variator problems as it shares this with the 75, unlike the later engines. It was altered slightly in 1992 when the capacity went from 1962cc (same size as the 105 car 2l) to 1995cc acompanying a new crankshaft, re-profile head and cams due to the fitting of the CAT. The earlier engine has the 2 distrubutors at either end of the head like the 75 too. Will need a new sump cover too, Maxbanks is probably the best person to advise though.

Nick

Originally Posted by Jamie and the magic torch

well f*** off then & talk about something you do know a little about.......................like perkins tractor engines

That's a thought Jamie.
You could stick one of those in your.... engine bay.

The earlier engine has the 2 distrubutors at either end of the head like the 75 too

The 75 does not have a dizzy at either end on the the exhaust cam.

Not into the 164s really but don't think a 164 engineis as easy to convert. Buy a 75 TS they are only £50!!! Also all the bell housing mounts on the engine are the same so a 105 gearbox is the right shape and has the holes in the right place just to slip on (with crank machining). As is the sump mounting so a 105 sump just slips on too.

As a said in a previous post dizzies are not great... electronic ignition is the way to go. If can't afford it/want distributor look then can use a modified Ferrari 308/Montreal distributor, available from Mike Elliot at Superformance. He certainly has two available at the moment as i just bought two 75 Twinsparks off him and didn't want the distributors.