Alfa Romeo 1300 GT Junior Wheels advice...

Hi guys,
My name's James, a newbie to the site and this is my debut post!
Looks like a fantastic site and i'm hoping i can pick the brains of some of you experts...
I'm currently restoring a 1972 1300 GT Junior with my dad and we're getting on pretty well. I'm looking at getting some wheels and at the moment I have the original steel wheels which i think are 14" 165's. They are not in great condition and will need refurbishing but i was just wondering what your opinions are on getting these wheels widened???
I've had a look on the internet and there are a few companies that offer steel wheel widening. I'm hoping it might possibly be a bit cheaper than buying new alloys such as those offered at alfaholics, classic alfa etc.
If anyone could offer any insight into what would be the maximum width and offsets that would work it would be hugely appreciated as that would help in getting some quotes...
Many thanks guys
James

Hi James
You can get steelies widened but they can look a bit odd, and is it worth the hassle on nearly 40 year old rims? What about keeping an eye out for some used alloys - you might gte some tyres thrown in too? A common size for the road is to go for 185/70 tyres on 6 x 14" rims.

The GTA replicas are always pricey but you can get some smart ATS or Chromodora five spokes - keep an eye out for people breaking Spider S3s for example.

Adam at Veloce Sport has some alloys for sale. Scroll down:
Veloce Sport Web Site

And both Alfaholics and ClassicAlfa list used bits too. Also keep an eye on Ebay. Remember all 105 alloys should fit - Spider, Coupe, Berlina, Super.
e.g. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alloy-wheels-M...em110274045187

Last thing if you are really on a budget, I understand Peugeot 205 GTi alloys fit and the 1.6 ones have a reasonably period look to them.

Good luck!

You probably won't need them widened. Wheel and tyre sizes do not match exactly. Wheels are measured in inches width and a letter for the flange height, typically something like 5J. Your wheels will accept a number of different tyre sizes - how wide were you thinking of going?

For our 1964 Sprint GT restoration we're using some 14" wheels from a 1969 Spider. They are 14" wheels 5.5" wide - we've chosen Yokohama 48's in a 185/55R14 fitting. They also do a 185/60R14 which is slightly deeper (the 55 and 60 figures are the depth and both these options are good for a wheel between 5 and 6 inches wide. If you are just using it for raod use, you might want to go with the deeper tyre to get a little more comfort!

Yoko 48's are a 'sticky' road tyre - you'll get better traction with those than a widened wheel with an 'eco' bog standard tyre. They are fine in the wet too, htough their tyre life will not be as good as something like a Michelin NCT type thing. They are often specced as a race tyre (I raced my Caterham on them for a couple of years) for saloon and sports cars.

If you go the Yoko route, then the best place to get them from is George Polley George Polley Motorsport - Road and Race Tyre Specialists

I would not go wider wheels than this with your car if you are going to fit a sticky tyre as I've suggested - you might find that the engine can't cope with the oil surge in hard cornering if you track the car, and it'll strain the suspension.

Hope this all helps!

PS - if you do get these, tyre pressures are 21 all round, hot!

Originally Posted by GeoffDixon

For our 1964 Sprint GT restoration we're using some 14" wheels from a 1969 Spider. They are 14" wheels 5.5" wide - we've chosen Yokohama 48's in a 185/55R14 fitting. They also do a 185/60R14 which is slightly deeper (the 55 and 60 figures are the depth and both these options are good for a wheel between 5 and 6 inches wide.

Changing the width/profile has consequences on the gearing. If you don't match the original rolling diameter and keep everything else the same then you will affect top speed, acceleration, fuel consumption and, at the very least, need the speedo recalibrating.

The original size would have been 165/80R14 (early Duettos had 155/80R15 which are within 1.5% of the same size). The 80% profile was implied in those days as it was all that was available. Going to a 185/55R14 will put the difference at close to 10%. To keep the rolling diameter the same you should use a tyre calculator like this: TYRESAVE: Tyre Size Calculator

The problem with 14" wheels is that it doesn't give you a lot of choice in higher profile tyres but I'm pretty happy with the Goodyear NCT5s I have which are 185/70R14 on 6J Daytona alloys.

Cosmo - absolutely agree and I guess it's up to James which route he goes - I was taking it from his ambition to increase the wheel width that he was more performance oriented.

Hence my comments about our approach and suggestion that if James wants better traction, he could achieve the same without widening the wheels by simply choosing a better tyre (better in the sense of grip and cornering, not necessarily better in terms of longevity and economy of course ). For our car, which is going to be pretty performance oriented, but kept within the spirit of what could have been done in 1964, increased grip, and better acceleration from reducing the gearing a little are fine by me!

I may well play with the diff before long, so we'll do a bit of, ahem, calibration with the TomTom to stay legal on the road I have to do that with the Caterham (which is MOT'd), which I run with 13" ultra sticky Kumhos fitted!

Geoff, have you taken some advice on those tyres? I would have thought 185/60 would be a better profile for an old car like ours. I don't think even the racing boys are running 55s on 14" wheels. The suspension design assumes a decent amount of tyre sidewall. Your tyre pressures also seem low too. There's much ongoing discussion about tyres/suspension on the AROC 105 forum - a great source of info if you aren't a member already.

Rick - yep, but we'll see how it goes. Probably the reason for what you might consider to be too low a pressure? Certainly those pressures worked for racing

Hi guys
Thanks very much for all the fantastic advice, it's very much appreciated.
I suppose my main reason for wanting to widen my original steel wheels is that I really like the alfa hub caps that came with my car and would love to keep them.
I'll get some prices from some companies that do the widening just to let you guys know and i'll keep my eye out for some wheel on ebay (fingers crossed).
Looks like there's plenty of choice out there for me so i better make my mind up on what i'm after
Thanks again guys

Originally Posted by GeoffDixon

Certainly those pressures worked for racing

On this car though?

Just seems very low. Certainly the guys racing on 048s are running higher than that even in very hot conditions, but I guess you'll have to see how they go.

Originally Posted by RicksAlfas

On this car though?

Just seems very low. Certainly the guys racing on 048s are running higher than that even in very hot conditions, but I guess you'll have to see how they go.

When racing you'll generate a lot more heat in the tyres which will increase the pressure. So for road use, without that heat assistance you might need a little more, have a play around and see what happens.

Rick - I'll do some testing, maybe with a heavier car I'll need to up the pressures. Racing, we used to set them cold (depending on the weather and at a normal UK clockwise circuit) at 16 Left Rear, 17 Left Front, 18 Right Rear, 19 Right Front to take account of the likely increase on the track (no tyre warmers in club racing!)

My car does have pretty much an FIA racing spec suspension/brakes set up and Terry and Scott at Crawford and Son Classic Automobiles who are doing the car have prepped a lot of the racing cars!

We shall see! I can't wait now!

James - let us know how you get on. I noticed in Practical Classics this month there's a letter with a similar request to yours. They recommend WideWheels HomePage so you might want to have a look at them?

Originally Posted by GeoffDixon

Rick - I'll do some testing, maybe with a heavier car I'll need to up the pressures. Racing, we used to set them cold (depending on the weather and at a normal UK clockwise circuit) at 16 Left Rear, 17 Left Front, 18 Right Rear, 19 Right Front to take account of the likely increase on the track (no tyre warmers in club racing!)

I presume this was on a Caterham or similar? I think you will find the 105 a bit different! I've got 195/70/14s road tyres on mine as I prefer the period look and they're running at about 26 (maybe a bit higher) and on a trackday I get pretty even wear and temperatures across the tread. The thread I was reading on AROC about the racers using 048s suggested they were running 24/26. Max Banks at Alfaholics would be a good source of advice.

Hi everyone

For your information the guys at Wide-Wheels have emailed me to let me know that to get all 4 of my original 1300 gt junior steel wheels widened with a 2" band would cost £310.
If you require the wheels smoothing off on the lip it is £10 a wheel
If you require the wheels shot blasted it is £10 a wheel
If you were after the lot it would be £430 + return postage or they can be collected.

What d'you guys think?
I really love the original hubcaps and would like to keep my original wheels but have the benefit of them being a little wider
Opinions would be much appreciated...

Thanks guys

Not worth it - you won't need the grip! In my humble opinion etc...