buying a *****

Hello,

I have a first touch, a GTV 73 2000 CC.

I should be doing a test drive this week end.

I need your help, what should I look for when looking at it, driving it, listenning to it?

How should the clutch sound if it's tired, same for the gear box, engine etc...

Thanks in advance

Andre

Welcome Andre, I'm sure some classic Alfisti guys will be along shortly to help you out.

Also, it's 'Alfa', not 'Al-pha', otherwise it blocks it out under the swear filter,

Welcome mate!!!

Darren

Hi Andre,post some pics.
Regards

Its an all alloy engine / gearbox casing with chain driven cams so be prepared for more noise than a modern. Gearboxes nearly always rattle or tinkle a bit with the clutch out. Thats normal.

Try the normal slipping clutch test (top gear, low/med revs, full throttle).

Check for blown head gasket by looking for emulsified oil under oil filler.

Actually I wouldn't worry too much about mechanicals, they are relatively easily fixable. It is bodywork you need to worry about. So take a magnet and check sills, wheelarches, round the window frames, lift carpets, check floorpans.

You should also prepare yourself for a much more involving drive and a nice flat torque output that runs from 1500-6000 RPM. It should feel much more alive and sporty than the B you have. Remember it was over twice the price when new.

Take a digital camera and put it underneath the car taking photo's from every conceivable angle, that way you can see things which your eyes can't.

Look for rust around the rear trailing arm pick up points, the cross member under the front seats and the two rails which run from it towards the front of the car. Other areas to study closely are the area where the front antiroll bar mounts the front castor arms and the top arms of the front suspension. One of the those is under the carbs and practically invisible but the other is under the servo's and just about visible.

When driving it, try and feel if the back end seems to be 'waddling' side to side, thats a sign of worn T/A bushes, expect to have to take third to second gear changes relatively slowly or it might crunch. Check reverse as they can jump out of gear.

if it doesn't feel miles better than your B... it's knackered

Lift the carpets -check for rust around all the edges of the floorpan.

Look carefully at the sills, jacking points etc. The front edge of the outer sills should be clean and clearly visible. I heard it was a common sign of a bodge if it was filled in or uneven.

Check spare wheel area and boot area.

Good luck!

Hello everybody,

Thank you for your reply.

I have tried to upload a picture of the GTV, (sorry about the ph/f on alfa).

Ok got your recommendation noted. Body work, yup been there. I have actually already crowled under the front and back. Looks decent, I will try to get it lifted up to inspect properly.
The paint work seems quite recent, so one more reason to be warry.

I have been thru the whole rebuilding of my Mg, I hope I can skip few of those episode as I have only one car...

Anyway, this forum looks quite reactive and friendly. Always nice to join (soon soon) a new family.

Thanks to all and have fun with your ALFA.

Take care

Andre

Looks nice and shiny
The tyres look a bit wider and lower than standard, 195/65's perhaps?. the steering might feel quite heavy and dead at low speeds with those on, though you will certainly have plenty of grip and it will lighten up as you pick up speed.

Are the Wheels Minilites?, it's hard to tell from that angle

Hello,

Yes I have the same rims on my MG and I love it!!

See the side view of the car.

Seems like the back is quite high (space between tyre/body), is it a sign that the suspension are new?

Cheers

Andre

Looks more like a low profile tyre.What size are those tyres?
Regards

That does look to have more room between wheelarches and tyres than standard. Can't tell if it is the wheel/tyre combination or springs.

Standard wheels should be 14" but it is not uncommon to fit 15" for a 'race' tyre. That could be a lower profile tyre on. I run 6J Melber alloys with 185/70 tyres which would be sort of standard.

There was a batch of extra strong springs sold through the 80's / 90's which famously raised the car up a little. If the wheel / tyre size is standard maybe it has those.

If thats a metallic red colour I don't believe it was a standard UK colour. Not that it's necessarily anything to worry about if you like the look of it.

It does look a bit high at both ends - probably just the way it is set up.

Picture 324.jpg

Mine is an earlier car with the 'low' rear arches and 15 inch wheels' plus full profile tyres - it looks very different.

Hi
Attached are some pics of past cars, 1600 has normal 14" wheels, Blue 2000GTV has 185/70 wheels. Silver 2000GTV has 185/65 on front and 195/70 on back.
Red 1750 in background had 205/70 on back wheels but had wide arches. These pics will give you some idear of wheel sizes. The wheels on your picture look to small ie 60 series. Also back wheel looks well forward in arch meaning axle is low with hard springs. I had this problem once with a car that had the rear springs of a saloon fitted. If axle straps have little travel left then the springs could be incorrect.

Hello every body,

news from the week end.

I went to see the GTV, well that wasn't so fun. First rust inspection, result, rust around (under) the door rubber, as well as on the chassis near the front wheel. I think the car has been respray to hide some work. The guy told me that they can work this out before selling the car, but I have the feeling that it would not be a good car. The engine didn't start either...
Then I went to see a Spider, good body, respray 2 year ago from bear metal. The overhaul look of the car, need some cosmetic, interior pretty much all the dash board is faded, door panel, engine (overhaul 2 year ago) look a bit oldish. But when you fire the engine, fantastic...
So that was my first test drive and I loved it. A part from the positioning of the pedal (why on hearth is it reversed!! ) my knee bang into the steering wheel (I am not a tall guy!!), but then smooth clutch, gentle gear changing, nice accelaration, sound soft yet powerfull, steering wheel quite light, and above all driving topless.

Of course feeling a lot of eyes on you while driving is also a good sign.

Then I went to see a third car, a spider, I haven't driven that one but I heard the sound of the engine, sound good and steady, and the interior was quite neat.

So that's official, I am sold to Alfa, and most probably to a Spider. Now I have to sell my MG

Talk to you soon.

Andre

Andre, no problem selling the MG - I went recently from '79 MGB Roadster to my current '77 Alfa Spider, and have never looked back - the Alfa is in a different league to the MG -the Spider is a much better engineered vehicle, with performance to match. The MG is a coal cart by comparison...Take your time, look at several examples so you can spot good from bad, do some research (either via this BB or through some of the very good buyers guides on the market), buy smart, and you'll be happy. ( And will never have to top up the damper on an SU carb again !!! ) Good Luck, buddy...

Hello,

Thanks for your words.

I know that Alfa is a "better" car than MG. But i guess you guys can understand that it's not the "better" that make a car special...

Anyway yup, more car to see. Friday I am going to see one which recomended by a friend that I trust. We shall see.

I will give the report of my search next week.

Until then good vroom vroom ladies and gentlemen

Andre

Good luck

Hello everybody,

Last update of my search for my first Alfa.

Yesterday I went to see one. Typicly the type that I like.
good body, but touch up to be done due to some dents...
interior a bit tired, need some care...
Engine off tune, but sound great.

However I need your experience.
First you need to know that it is an Alfa spider 73. The current owner have lost interest, that translate to a car which hasn't run much in the past year or so. Under the bonnet I found two Dellorto carb , and surprise two K & N air filter. Are K&N a good thing?
Then test drive, obviously I had to drive for a litle while before the engine wakes up. At the accelaration, or re-accelaration the engine seems to lack of air or petrol, or too much petrol or air. Hard to explain, but the engine sound just fade for 2 or 3 second then gives the accelaration.

I strongly beleive that the engine need a good clean up, oil, air filter, petrol filter, and a good tune on the carbs. But still I d love to hear what you have to say.

Also, when I engage the first gear, if I don't press all the way the clutch the gear crack. Clutch tired?
I have read that the second gear is often the weack one, didn't feel any problem there.

Some less important detail, but still. When engine switch off, the speed needle indicator is on 10 M/H not zero? (by the way is it difficult to change the speedomter to Km/H instead of miles??)
When running the RP/M is oscilating all the time?

I will need to change the suspension, certainly some or all bushes to the undercarriage. DOes Alfa have Nylon bushes? much better isn't it?

I look forward to read from you guys.

Cheers

Andre

Hi Andre,
Post some detailed pics.
What size engine does it have?
Dellorto carbs are standard on a 2000,sounds like they need to be reconditioned.I changed mine to Webers because the Dellortos gave too much trouble.
Check the condition of the rubber intakes,positioned between the carbs and head.It is important that their is a support for the carbs after fitting K&N sport filters otherwise the rubber intakes carry all the load leading to air entering.
The syncro on the first gear could be worn out,tough job to remove the gearbox.
10 Mph is the resting place for the needle
The Rev gauge is an easy fix,usualy it is the dial.
Poly bushes are available,most of us has done it.
What is the condition of the top?
Check the nose section for any repairs,structural,if their is any walk away.Most repairs done to Spiders are not very good and it costs a whack to repair or re-do it.
What you mention in your post are common problems with Spiders,their are more!
Regards
ps.Where are you located?

First gear is often a bit crunchy going in. There is no Synchromesh on first from neutral, (though bizarrely there is from second to first, which is rarely done). Make sure tickover not too high as that will affect it.

I have dellortos on both mine and they are reasonably well behaved and easy to look after. They also give a whisker more power than weber / solex equipped cars. Just give them a service and get them set up by a specialist.

The wobbly instrument needle is almost certainly a cable with poor lubrication. Remove the cable from its inner, coat in grease, will probably sort the issue. Certainly you should try that before opening instruments up.

This sounds like quite a bit of work/ money needed. If you are prepared to put the work in yourself (and you don't cost your time) it could be worth doing but don't underestimate how much it'll take.

Oh, and you probably won't get back what it cost you plus all you have to spend on it. I just always remember the old saying with clssics that its better to pay the extra for one thats had most of the work done precisely because of the above. Sound advice which I have never heeded but wish I had!

I sold my 1970 MG Midget (chrome bumper/wire wheel) and bought a 78 Alfa Spider..........that was about 15 years ago!! I now have an 86 Spider and a 92 164S, never looked back! The Alfa's are soooooooo much better!

.

Hello,

Thank you for your answer.

My turn to give a bit of answer.

I am french, but I have been living in Singapore for 8 years now.
I know that when buying a classic it's always better to pay extra, but in Singapore the car business is a bit special and the value of one car is not always determine by it's condition.
I have my MGB GT 73, that I found 2 years ago, overhaule she was in a sorry looking shape however no rust prob. So I took a lot satisfaction to give her what see needed to find her lost glory. Now I am trying sell for about twice the price I paid for.
For the sipder I have seen Saturday, it's a 2000 from 73.
I really don't mind spending time and a bit of money to get the car back to a good looking red babe...
All the other small details, well sound like my MG.
First gear cracking, that I am more worry. Give me a hint of symptom of a tired gear box. Drove tha car for a while and I couldn't spot anything wrong with it.

A bientot.

Andre

Nearly all 105 series gearboxes I have had will crunch going into first if revs are over 1000-1200 at tickover and you don't take care. You can solve the problem by going into gear slowly or putting the car briefly into second at standstill and then going into first.

The known weak point is the synchromesh on 2nd and reverse. This lasts about 20,000 km so frankly, if it goes into second and reverse okay its a pretty good gearbox. A worn box will also drop out of reverse so have a good reversing session to make sure it stays in.

Other than that if all the gears go in, it is fairly smooth and there are no awful crunches or graunches then it is a good one.

The gearbox and clutch release bearing may well rattle and whirr a bit. All mine have done that, even after rebuilds.