Dragging clutch - S3 Spider - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
  Home Forums AO Club Member Gallery Classifieds Trade Directory  

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > The Classic Alfa Romeos

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (Post Link)  
Old 05-04-08
andyt's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 117
Images: 7

Member car:

1989 Spider Series 3 LHD

Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

I have recently put my engine and gearbox back into my 1989 S3 Spider after a head rebuild and new clutch. I bled the clutch some weeks ago and have had the engine running to shunt the car in and out of my garage to enable other odd jobs to be done prior to the MOT. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that the clutch was dragging, such that it was difficult to put the car in gear with the engine running. If I pumped the clutch a few times, it seemed to help, so I thought I may have some air trapped somewhere. Since I was to bleed it again, I replaced the old (slightly cracked) flexible pipe. The result was a much lighter clutch - too light in fact and it was worse than ever, despite several attempts to bleed it. Looking underneath whilst my son helped by pressing the pedal, I noticed that the slave cylinder was only pushing the clutch mechanism about 10mm or less, and I was expecting it to be more in the region of 10-15mm. Nothing seemed to improve this despite numerous attempts at bleeding. In the end, I have adjusted the rod between the pedal and the master cylinder and it now seems to be ok - I think!

The problem seems to have been due to the pedal not having enough throw to operate the slave cylinder far enough. Adjusting the rod at the master cylinder so far seems to have sorted the problem, but why did I have to do this? It worked prior to the clutch being changed. Incidentally, the slave cylinder was changed about 500 miles ago due to a leak on the old one, so I can rule out any problem there.

I'm pleased to have hopefully fixed the problem, but mystified as to why the problem came about. Any ideas?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 05-04-08
keithglos's Avatar
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 1,786

Member car:

FIAT Croma Prestigio 2.4

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

This suggests that the master cylinder bore is internally corroded for just the first bit of movement, with fluid passing the seal instead of pushing the slave. Corrosion usually from water mixing with the fluid over the years. This sounds more feasible than my usual attempts at distant diagnosis.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (Post Link)  
Old 05-04-08
andyt's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 117
Images: 7

Member car:

1989 Spider Series 3 LHD

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

Thanks for your suggestion. Although the car is approaching 20 years old, it spent the first 12 or so in California, and is remarkably rust and corrosion free (you should see inside the brake drums!). I'm beginning to think that I have a broken or breaking lever arm shaft, which I will investigate tomorrow. I found this on an old thread on the alfabb.com site and unfortunately for me it is looking just like my problem..... These links are copied over, just in case anyone else is having similar problems:

Replacing the Alfa Clutch Pedal Shaft

http://home.hiwaay.net/~ortak/Clutch...pivot_arms.htm

If anyone has other suggestions, please post them here.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (Post Link)  
Old 06-04-08
Filbyman's Avatar
Status: S3 good 159 now around 260hp V good
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Norfolk
Posts: 367
Images: 16

Member car:

s3 spider & 159 2.4

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

You may have had a master or slave cylinder problem for some time. As the clutch plate wears it reduces in thickness. The new clutch will be thicker (and the new pressure plate harder to push) it will alter the position where the slave cylinder operates. If the master cylinder inside or seal are warn or damaged, it will not push so much fluid. If you put the clutch down and hold it down (while in gear) if the clutch slowly starts to engage then the master cylinder needs attention.
(silly question, you have bled the slave with bleed uppermost) Not worked on LHD cars, so if you can adjust master cylinder, try it (after the hold down test)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (Post Link)  
Old 06-04-08
andyt's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 117
Images: 7

Member car:

1989 Spider Series 3 LHD

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

Thanks for your comments, Filbyman. The slave was bled with the bleed nipple at the top. I've since found out that it appears to be a problem with the clutch lever shaft, and either the weld is giving way on the lever on the end of the shaft or the shaft is sheared inside, but still managing to offer a limited amount of friction to try and do something. I'm off to try and take it apart........

One thing that has become apparent is that adjusting the rod length is only covering up the main problem. The rod length should be fixed at 134mm on the lhd model.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (Post Link)  
Old 06-04-08
andyt's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 117
Images: 7

Member car:

1989 Spider Series 3 LHD

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

The problem is that the weld has cracked on the clutch lever pivot shaft. Although still tight, the lever doesn't provide the full movement on the master cylinder, thus the slave doesn't move enough either, and the clutch doesn't clear properly.
I have taken the pedal box off the bulkhead and removed the shaft, and with the shaft held firmly in a vice, I can just about rotate the lever without the shaft moving! Luckily, I have been able to mark the relevant positions and it is being welded tomorrow. I can the reassemble. I've even managed to do it without having to disconnect the pipes - tight, but just about possible.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (Post Link)  
Old 13-04-08
Alfa Gary's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 32

Member car:

'53 156 2.0 JTS

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

Thank you for this information. I have just got my S3 back on the road after a gearbox rebuild and clutch replacement only to experience much the same as you.

I will check the lever pivot shaft this afternoon if the rain holds off, and together with the links you have provided, i hope to be able to remove the shaft myself....

Do you know what the rod length should be for right-hand drive cars?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (Post Link)  
Old 13-04-08
andyt's Avatar
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Staffordshire, UK
Posts: 117
Images: 7

Member car:

1989 Spider Series 3 LHD

Re: Dragging clutch - S3 Spider

Originally Posted by mowog View Post
Thank you for this information. I have just got my S3 back on the road after a gearbox rebuild and clutch replacement only to experience much the same as you.

I will check the lever pivot shaft this afternoon if the rain holds off, and together with the links you have provided, i hope to be able to remove the shaft myself....

Do you know what the rod length should be for right-hand drive cars?
Since your car is a Series 3, I assume that it has been converted to RHD. I'm afraid I have no information on this, but from memory, some of the conversions leave the brake and clutch master cylinders in the original place, and have some form of spacer to allow extended brake and clutch rods to run across the bulkhead. If this is the case, I see no reason why it shouldn't be the same. However, there may be more experienced people out there who may be able to provide more information.

The length of 134mm specified for my car is based upon the length of the operating lever, so it could be different if a different lever length has been used on your converted car since a longer lever will give a longer stroke at the master cylinder. My master cylinder, from what I can read from the side, shows: Benditalia T4033*** (where * means not sure!).

The information that I have for older RHD cars (ie official RHD Alfa), states a slave cylinder movement of 11-12mm. The pushrod on the master cylinder should be adjusted to give this, and when correct, the travel on the master cylinder pushrod should be 27mm + or - 1.5mm. This information is taken from my Brooklands book on the spider, and refers to models introduced from 1970 with hanging pedals. This set up is different to that of the S3 though
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > The Classic Alfa Romeos

Tags
clutch, dragging, spider

Thread Tools


Recently 'Read'
No History to show

Useful Links
Lost Password?
AO Merchandise
FAQs
Register

External Links
Alfa Romeo 156 2.0...
2012 ALFA ROMEO...
Alfa romeo 156 jtd...
2003 alfa romeo 156...
2012 ALFA ROMEO...

Alfa Romeo

Recent Image

Img 0961

View ALFAPAT's images

Search

Forums

Classifieds
   

Gallery

Social Groups
   

Members
   


Did you know..?
Did you know..?
AO Club Members have access to more site features.

Click Here to compare the differences.

New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:15.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716