Choke control for Weber carbs

My GTV2000 has been converted from Spica to Webers; however, the car was originally a CA car that was always kept in warm climates so the previous owner(s) apparently did not need to install a hand choke. I have the car in PA where you normally choke carburetorated cars in cold weather. I identified the choke attachments on the carbs and installed an after-market choke cable but it seems to have little effect on starting cold. Any suggestions? I presume Euro GTVs had choke cables on carburetorated setups. If so, where was the stock choke cable mounted in the cockpit and are originals available?

The chokes on the Webbers are not chokes in the normal sense that close a butterfly and thereby suck more fuel, but are in fact "enrichers" that supply more fuel by another method. Your carbs may have had some parts of the enrichment circuit removed or the gaskets may be leaking and thereby not functioning properly. If you have a choke cable connected to both carbs and it does not help the cold start, I would suggest you get a Webber carb book and study the parts in the enrichment circuit. Also you can see if the cable is attached at the proper opening of the enricher levers. Hope this helps,...
Catch

No choke cable!

The old-fashioned method for cold starting twin Webers always used to be two clean full pumps of the throttle, foot off the gas and twist the key. Blip after she catches properly.

Spot on Jim! BUT I dunno if that will work in PA or not!

How cold does it get there?

We always ditched the choke cables on the racers to save weight!

Paulus

Yes you don't need a choke, pump the throttle a couple of times and turn the key with slight throttle. Havent used choke for over 25 years. Ops I must be getting old.

Originally Posted by Paulus

How cold does it get there?

I don't know but assume it isn't kept outside so it should still work fine.

Worst case, a squirt of Bradex Eazi-Start down the trumpets gives an extra kick.

Hi GTV Jim
I don't like easy start of any make. Engines can get addicted, and I have been told of expensive problems from over use in the past.
But if it works for you, why not.

When I refurbished my Webers I found the inside of the choke/enrichment circuit was completely gummed up. I spent a good deal of time dismantling, cleaning and degunking it. The outcome was pretty much zero difference in starting ability

Half a dozen prods on the loud pedal is the only "true" way.

Great info and suggestions! Thanks for the Weber quick course. Choke cable (or enrichment cable if you will) doesn't make any noticeable difference so I'm taking it off and will go with the throttle thumping methods suggested. No big loss - universal choke conversion cable cost $6 at AutoZone. Maybe I can use it on one of my tractors! How cold does it get - this winter has been what you call a female dog. Feb avg temp was 23F (-5C) with long spells in the 10F-20F (-12C to -6C) range. We got 8" of blowing snow over the last several days but today the temp zoomed to 60F (16C) - haven't seen this temp for over 3 mos. Anyway, I was using the throttle pumping method but thought I was being extra hard on the starter and battery so I was looking for a more gentile solution. Guess I should have stuck with my gut and many years of mechanical experience but you can see for a guy with experience with convential carbs, including a pair of Stromberg 175s on my TR4A that also has a choke, how I could have assumed what I thought were choke connections were enrichment levers. You learn something new everyday. BTW I have a Pat Braden Weber carb manual but my assumption about the choke/enrichment levers overrode the sensible approach of reading the manual. Thanks again for all the pointers.

Glad to be of service Norm. The Nord twin cam does seem to be hard on battery power. I need to upgrade mine. They also seem to hate being left to sit for anything over two weeks and can be a pig to start for some reason.

Originally Posted by Filbyman

Hi GTV Jim
I don't like easy start of any make. Engines can get addicted, and I have been told of expensive problems from over use in the past.
But if it works for you, why not.

Hi Filbs, I agree -though it's hard to have a mechanical object get an addiction! - I did say in extreme cases meaning if it had been really cold or maybe laid up a while. Just a wee snort to get her woken up.

Originally Posted by norm_GTV2000

How cold does it get - this winter has been what you call a female dog. Feb avg temp was 23F (-5C) with long spells in the 10F-20F (-12C to -6C) range. We got 8" of blowing snow over the last several days but today the temp zoomed to 60F (16C) - haven't seen this temp for over 3 mos.

So a little chilly then!

I had a mate in Fargo/Morehead who reckoned that there was only Summer or Winter there as it would go from +60 one day to -40 overnight!

P

Originally Posted by 73GTVJim

Glad to be of service Norm. The Nord twin cam does seem to be hard on battery power. I need to upgrade mine. They also seem to hate being left to sit for anything over two weeks and can be a pig to start for some reason.

Have you thought about fitting an electric fuel pump? The main problem when they are left for a while is that it takes a long time to get the fuel into the carbs with the mechanical pump.

Originally Posted by RicksAlfas

Have you thought about fitting an electric fuel pump? The main problem when they are left for a while is that it takes a long time to get the fuel into the carbs with the mechanical pump.

Good idea Rick. It crossed my mind when I had the sender out and found it sludged up. I was having trouble getting fuel through and initially thought it was the pump.

How hard are they to fit? Where is the best location? And is there a recommended unit (standard car - maybe some trackdays in the distant future)?

I had a Facet RedTop on my last car - it wasn't an Alfa engine, but a Ford engine with Twin Webers and no choke and it started no bother. They are easy to fit. They mount near the tank. One pipe from the tank goes to the pump. One pipe from the pump goes to the engine. You can use the existing pipe if it's in good nick. They need a good earth and an ignition fed power feed. I mounted mine through a switch so you could knock the pump off if you wanted to work on the car with the ignition on - not that you ever need to do any electrical fault finding on an old Alfa!!!
When you switch them on they click like something demented as they pump up and then settle down to a steady click. On the Ford engine you could get a blanking plate and remove the old pump completely. I'm not sure what you do on the Alfa - would be worth asking Alfaholics. This is the pump I used...
Facet Red Top Electric Fuel Pump

Cheers Rick.

35 gallons/hr pumping capacity? Is there something I need to know about 2.0 economy?

It'll only pump what the carbs can take!!! You can always fit a regulator if you want as well.

Originally Posted by RicksAlfas

It'll only pump what the carbs can take!!! You can always fit a regulator if you want as well.

I seem to remember we used a "Filter King" fuel filter as well on the Bertonés, both mounted under the bonnet on the right hand inner wing.

Hi all
Years ago I had a pump fail on my 2000GTV. I fitted an old BMC mini fuel pump. It was still on the car when I sold it years later. They were also used on Jags. You can still get them no probs. They fit in the fuel line, need an earth and feed from the ignition. They click quickly when you turn on the ignition to pump up the pressure, when they stop you turn to start. I cant rember if you have to remove the manual pump and make a blanking plate. You could try an old unit first (if you can get hold of one) without removing the pump.

Wow! I'm glad I started this healthy discussion of all things Weber - I've picked up a wealth of info with these helpful threads. I have an electric fuel pump. I'm not sure what make but it is a billet aluminum rectangular one anodized in a gold color. It was on the car when I bought it so maybe the previous owner knew what you guys are suggesting. It sings pretty good because even with my tankers' ears, I can still hear it when I hit the ignition. Now that I have your suggestions on throttle pumping technique, I just have to play with it a little to get the right combo for my car. On to the next challenge.

Good news Norm! Switch your ignition on and then wait for the rapid clicking to die down before trying to start. Then at least you will have fuel at the carbs. I would go for four rapid stabs off the throttle pedal and then try it!

I'll try it tomorrow when I am home where my car is garaged. I know that with my 2 previous GTV 1750s with Spica, there was a fuel pressure light on the dash and the starting procedure was to wait for the fuel pressure warning light to go out after turning on the ignition before attempting starting. That was 38 yrs ago so I'm a little rusty but I can see this procedure is similar in terms of letting the fuel pump do it's duty although with fuel injection you didn't pump the throttle, just crack it to even the pressure to the cylinders, if I recall.