Transmission - 3rd gear popping back to neutral - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Transmission - 3rd gear popping back to neutral

Just started happening to me, when I put the car into 3rd it stays in gear whilst accelerating, sometimes when foot is off the gas or only on lightly the car jumps out of third and back into neutral. I have had a good scout around and it seems it could be to do with a worn top rubber seal, does this sound right? I have no crunching and otherwise the car runs through the gears smoothly. anyone had any experience or opinions?
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I dont think you are going to be lucky enough for it to be as simple as the rubber gaiter. The selector rods are held in position by a detent ball and spring on top of the gearbox. They are in the attached drawing parts 56 & 57. Each selector rod has three detents, the middle for neutral and the one either side and in the case of third the other will be forth.

What the most likely cause of your problem is that the spring (57) is weakened or broken or more unlikely the ball has disappeared (???). Remedy can be affected without stripping the gearbox down, but it will require removing, I dont think there is enough room between the gear box and tunnel to work.

http://www.highwoodalfa.com/giulia%20tables/WPE4.GIF

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I dont think you are going to be lucky enough for it to be as simple as the rubber gaiter. The selector rods are held in position by a detent ball and spring on top of the gearbox. They are in the attached drawing parts 56 & 57. Each selector rod has three detents, the middle for neutral and the one either side and in the case of third the other will be forth.

What the most likely cause of your problem is that the spring (57) is weakened or broken or more unlikely the ball has disappeared (???). Remedy can be affected without stripping the gearbox down, but it will require removing, I dont think there is enough room between the gear box and tunnel to work.

http://www.highwoodalfa.com/giulia%20tables/WPE4.GIF
Nothing like hopeless optimism is there?! Thanks TD for your quick response, so you don't think it is possible to diagnose this without removing? Is 59 attached to the gear stick? Sorry for the possibly stupid questions, but I don't think this will be one I can attempt on my own (at least until I move house) and I'd like to be as well equipped as possible before speaking to someone who can fix it (don't want the answer to be a rebuild if it doesn't have to be)
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No, 59 is a plate that hold all three detent 'top hats' (58) in place.

The gear lever operates in the end of the selector rods 52, 53 & 54 at the far right hand end of the drawing. I cant think of anything inside the gearbox which will have failed causing your problem without other problems occurring.

I have my gearbox dismantled on the bench at the moment, I'll get some photos for you at the weekend.
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No, 59 is a plate that hold all three detent 'top hats' (58) in place.

The gear lever operates in the end of the selector rods 52, 53 & 54 at the far right hand end of the drawing. I cant think of anything inside the gearbox which will have failed causing your problem without other problems occurring.

I have my gearbox dismantled on the bench at the moment, I'll get some photos for you at the weekend.
Thanks, really appreciated
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Here you are, I'd probably get stuck in in the garage at the weekend then forget!
First photo is the selector rod and how the ball, spring and top hat are positioned, there is one of these for each selector rod.
Second photo is the sort of position of the gear lever in relation to the selector rods.
Third is me pointing to one of the holes in the top of the gearbox where the detent ball goes, they are held in place by 59 which is a metal plate.
Forth photo is the contents of my box on the bench.
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Here you are, I'd probably get stuck in in the garage at the weekend then forget!
First photo is the selector rod and how the ball, spring and top hat are positioned, there is one of these for each selector rod.
Second photo is the sort of position of the gear lever in relation to the selector rods.
Third is me pointing to one of the holes in the top of the gearbox where the detent ball goes, they are held in place by 59 which is a metal plate.
Forth photo is the contents of my box on the bench.
Great photos, thanks for taking the time, I now have a much better idea of what you are talking about
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yes, good photos.....obviously lot of work going on there...

I would -before thinking of removing and dismantling the tranny- completely remove the centre console and testdrive the car again with the gearstick completely free of possible obstruction.

I am not versed in coupes but the spider centre console certainly can and does sometimes push the stick out of gear (or, won't let it properly get into gear) if the alignment is wrong, for instance after engine mount or tranny mount work, or after removing the console and not putting it back exactly right etc.

well worth a test I'd say before tearing into the gearbox.
Dom
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Dom, if you recall you guided me to a gearbox NOS bearing last year. The mistake I made was seeing the other bearing in the 'box with rose tinted glasses. This time I have located NOS bearings for the lot, which I should have done last year! To think the first time I stripped and rebuilt the 'box it was quite daunting, second time nowhere near so scary.
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Originally Posted by spiderserie4 View Post
yes, good photos.....obviously lot of work going on there...

I would -before thinking of removing and dismantling the tranny- completely remove the centre console and testdrive the car again with the gearstick completely free of possible obstruction.

I am not versed in coupes but the spider centre console certainly can and does sometimes push the stick out of gear (or, won't let it properly get into gear) if the alignment is wrong, for instance after engine mount or tranny mount work, or after removing the console and not putting it back exactly right etc.

well worth a test I'd say before tearing into the gearbox.
Dom
Thanks Dom, I'm a big fan of potential solutions that don't cost me tons of money!! I'm going to try and have a look this weekend as I know the console has been the cause of the car previously popping out of reverse, but that was because it was pushing on the side, I assumed if it was pushing from the top it would push out 1st and 5th as well, but must admit of all my driving in the last 12 months I haven't spent long in either gear. Thanks Matt
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I think you will find it is a internal problem with the gearbox. If it was the ball/spring then it would also be jumping out of 4th. Its worth checking before you remove the box however
If you remove the prop and gearbox mount this will allow the rear of the box to drop down and you may be able to reach in to remove the plate and springs.
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I think you will find it is a internal problem with the gearbox. If it was the ball/spring then it would also be jumping out of 4th. Its worth checking before you remove the box however
If you remove the prop and gearbox mount this will allow the rear of the box to drop down and you may be able to reach in to remove the plate and springs.
I did consider that it might pop out of 4th as well but consider the weight of the gearlever would hold it in gear.
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....and the points go to.......(drum roll)......Dom!! Thanks everyone for your experience and comments, I removed the centre console today and realised that, like many things on this car, somethings had been hashed in the past that meant everything was not quite how it should be. Anyway, have made a temporary fix until I can spend a good few hours on it, but a slight repositioning has temporarily eliminated the problem. I have a feeling the original fixings have disappeared, don't know if anyone has a 2000gtv that would know, the only thing that keeps it in place is a screw at the back between the front seats and one on the drivers side of the transmission tunnel. I'll take a picture tomorrow.
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....and the points go to.......(drum roll)......Dom!! Thanks everyone for your experience and comments, I removed the centre console today and realised that, like many things on this car, somethings had been hashed in the past that meant everything was not quite how it should be. Anyway, have made a temporary fix until I can spend a good few hours on it, but a slight repositioning has temporarily eliminated the problem. I have a feeling the original fixings have disappeared, don't know if anyone has a 2000gtv that would know, the only thing that keeps it in place is a screw at the back between the front seats and one on the drivers side of the transmission tunnel. I'll take a picture tomorrow.
Brilliant news!!! An easy fix is always a relief, I could hear your groans at the thought of a gearbox removal right down here is Sussex! Very pleased my 'worst case senario' proved unfounded.
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