What nhs?

[RONHULLOCK]

Our nhs dentist here in carlisle suddenly closed last friday.My oldest daughter (12)had toothache all weekend,i got through to our dentist,s reception on monday morning and was referred to another dentist who would see her,which was good.After a filling and an antibiotic prescription i asked for my family to be put on their nhs list,"sorry the nhs list is full"ok i said can we be put on the waiting list"no" was the reply,"will you not even take the children"no was the reply,"but if you can go private"So the dentist is too busy to see us on the nhs but not too busy if we go private.I,ve tried five more dentist,s who do nhs treatment and all are full but not too full to do private treatment,WTF is going on!children should be treated as first class citizens and have a dentist at a moments notice,not as a revenue stream.I noticed on the bottom of the nhs poster these dentists displayed was this line"if you need dental treatment contact an nhs dentist and you will be seen".To quote jim royle"MY ARSE".Our government does nothing to protect us from foreign companies who own our power companies and see us as an easy place to profiteer,they take hugh taxes from us and do not look after our health,and they treat us like thicko,s by imposing higher taxes on fuel under the total B***cks of environmentalism,when they can,t be honest enough to say we need more money and we need to put general taxation up.

[PaulR]

Phone NHS Direct - they will find you one - may be miles away and inconvenient but you will get one.

[RONHULLOCK]

Quick update on the dentist situation,got a letter from our local health trust saying that they had recieved our application for a nhs dentist,they couldn,t tell us who the dentist would be,where they would be,how long we would have to wait,or where we are on the waiting list.So what the ****** did they write to me for,just to p*ss me off some more,the ignorant t***s,cos the letter has told me ****** all!We need an nhs dentist now not when it suits some t**t of a pen pusher with his f*****g private dental plan.

[symon]

Took us ages to find an NHS dentist, after our old one went private.

It is still a 25 mile drive just for a checkup.

[Joss]

Dentists should be forced to take on NHS if they have space. If they can accept private then they can accept NHS.

[mudhut]

Originally Posted by Joss

Dentists should be forced to take on NHS if they have space. If they can accept private then they can accept NHS.

Why? The matter is a commercial decision taken by a private enterprise. They may well have the space but so what - it's their space.

If we want a proper state run dental service (and the same goes for optometry IMO), then we must be prepared to pay for its establishment and running.

[howell811]

Two surgeries I've used in the past have gone over to Denplan and we've had a letter basically saying pay up or leave !

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by mudhut

Why? The matter is a commercial decision taken by a private enterprise. They may well have the space but so what - it's their space.

If we want a proper state run dental service (and the same goes for optometry IMO), then we must be prepared to pay for its establishment and running.

Problem isn,t the funding it,s the way it works.our old dentist before he closed told me that if he did too much work then he would NOT BE PAID FOR IT.What f*****g to**pot thought up that idea(one of thatchers lacky,s i bet).The point stands that if there is room for patients,, there is room for patients ,and choosing nhs trestment should not be a reason to be turned away.This f*****G lot we,ve got now are still thatcherite to the core,and are trying to wriggle out of paying public sector workers their due pensions.The pension scheme was part of the contract of employment and goes some way to make up for the sh**e wages they get.Basic healthcare should be free to everyone on demand and not seen as a commercial venture

[Annabella]

Originally Posted by RONHULLOCK

Problem isn,t the funding it,s the way it works.our old dentist before he closed told me that if he did too much work then he would NOT BE PAID FOR IT.What f*****g to**pot thought up that idea

It's a very simple concept - the contract.

Local NHS Commissioners have a fixed pot of funding (like anyone else, a budget they can't exceed) which they have the unenviable job of deciding how to spend.

Some very clever geeky people will do their very best to predict where demand will be greatest (a fag-packet example, you have an elderly population in the area you are commissioning NHS services for so you commission more hip replacements than the 'young' town next door).

Same goes for dental services. The local commissioners will 'buy' the amount of activity they think the local population needs (based on historic trends plus a bit) from a certain number of dentists and this amount is agreed at the beginning of the financial year. If the dentist sees more people than the commissioner can afford to pay for, they won't get paid for it.

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by Annabella

It's a very simple concept - the contract.

Local NHS Commissioners have a fixed pot of funding (like anyone else, a budget they can't exceed) which they have the unenviable job of deciding how to spend.

Some very clever geeky people will do their very best to predict where demand will be greatest (a fag-packet example, you have an elderly population in the area you are commissioning NHS services for so you commission more hip replacements than the 'young' town next door).

Same goes for dental services. The local commissioners will 'buy' the amount of activity they think the local population needs (based on historic trends plus a bit) from a certain number of dentists and this amount is agreed at the beginning of the financial year. If the dentist sees more people than the commissioner can afford to pay for, they won't get paid for it.

Seems like these very geeky people have been ********** it up for a very long time,and it,s time to replace them and stick their contracts up their a**es,cos it looks like if they ****** up my children get no checkups,hygiene checks or anything. It,s time we went back to a free system for everyone,maybe the adults could wait but children shold be re registered with an nhs dentist as soon as they need one,not when they get toothache but to ensure they have the best dental health we can give them.Children should not be part of a f****ed up tory system when it comes to their health.

[Annabella]

Well, to make you feel better those very geeky people are being replaced by GPs. Which fills me with confidence.

Dentistry, unfortunately, isn't essential care. For a commissioner, non-elective treatment (like surgery and cancer treatments) will always take priority over teeth.

Most regions recommend that you register with an NHS dentist and ensure that you visit at least every 18 months, that way you keep you NHS place. Commissioners in England spent a heck of a lot of money over the last five years increasing the number of NHS places for dentistry, but unfortunately people just didn't bother to use them... they didn't bother going and getting a check up with their dentist and left it until it was an emergency. Which made it very difficult for the geeky people to know how many people actually needed NHS treatment.

[howell811]

I think my dentist told me to leave after I kept telling them "They looked down in the mouth"

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by Annabella

Well, to make you feel better those very geeky people are being replaced by GPs. Which fills me with confidence.

Dentistry, unfortunately, isn't essential care. For a commissioner, non-elective treatment (like surgery and cancer treatments) will always take priority over teeth.

Most regions recommend that you register with an NHS dentist and ensure that you visit at least every 18 months, that way you keep you NHS place. Commissioners in England spent a heck of a lot of money over the last five years increasing the number of NHS places for dentistry, but unfortunately people just didn't bother to use them... they didn't bother going and getting a check up with their dentist and left it until it was an emergency. Which made it very difficult for the geeky people to know how many people actually needed NHS treatment.

You are missing my point,children should not be part of this contract culture,when my practice closed,they should be,by law,IMMEDIATELY on the books of whichever practice is best for them.My daughter is at the age where good dental care is of paramount importance so she can keep her own teeth for all her life. She should not on some waiting list which we do not know how long is.I say again, children should be at the top of the list when ANY kind of healthcare is needed.It,s no good saying use the emergency dentist because by the time the toothache is here it,s probably time for a filling which is too late. Prevention must be the first priority.

[tul66]

Originally Posted by RONHULLOCK

You are missing my point,children should not be part of this contract culture,when my practice closed,they should be,by law,IMMEDIATELY on the books of whichever practice is best for them.My daughter is at the age where good dental care is of paramount importance so she can keep her own teeth for all her life. She should not on some waiting list which we do not know how long is.I say again, children should be at the top of the list when ANY kind of healthcare is needed.It,s no good saying use the emergency dentist because by the time the toothache is here it,s probably time for a filling which is too late. Prevention must be the first priority.

Why

[symon]

I don't agree with the bit where it says that dentistry isn't essential care.

I am sure other people who have had toothache wouldn't either.


Not only that some teeth complications can develop into life threatening problems, normally if infections spread.

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by howell811

Two surgeries I've used in the past have gone over to Denplan and we've had a letter basically saying pay up or leave !

I'm on Denplan, it's very good, you get more periodical checkups, I've been on it since I was a kid as my parents went private and did a family thing, I continued with it and am now 35 and have all my teeth and not one filling.

From what I remember of nhs dentists (dentist using molegrips on a tooth and putting their knee on my chest to gain extra leverage to 'extract' one of my baby molars without anaesthetic) versus private I will never go back.

I also think the level of care in private is better, your teeth have to last a lifetime, if there's one thing you can do for your kids get them private dental, it doesn't cost a great deal in the grand scheme of things, and I'm sure that anyone would be willing to sacrifice a few bottles of wine, cans of larger/ packs of cigs for the health of their children.

There are other plans available, my dentist also runs his own plan under the indepenDENT it's not quite as all encompassing as Denplan though but it considerably cheaper.



http://www.ident.co.uk/patients.aspx

[mick.p.]

Originally Posted by GhostyDog

From what I remember of nhs dentists (dentist using molegrips on a tooth and putting their knee on my chest to gain extra leverage to 'extract' one of my baby molars without anaesthetic) versus private I will never go back.


IndepenDent Dental Care Plan Provider - Why IndepenDent?

I think you are getting real memories mixed up with a comedy film you saw as a child here.

Very funny images in my head though.

Mick.

[Annabella]

*Shrug*
Children are top of every list, they're almost always considered as 'urgent'. Same with dentistry, hence why you were able to see an emergency dentist. You'll also find that your child's dental care in completely free of charge, where as an adult has to pay a fixed tariff. AND she was seen and treated there and then. I'm struggling to see what your issue is...

We're hugely fortunate in this country that healthcare is free at the point of delivery and funded entirely by the state.

Dentists are all private contractors. There are only a very small number directly employed by the NHS (and these are usually found in Dental Hospitals). So the 'difference' between private and 'nhs' dentists is none existent, they are one and the same.

[Annabella]

Originally Posted by symon

I don't agree with the bit where it says that dentistry isn't essential care.

Regular dental care isn't essential.

Having your annual check up and a scrape and polish isn't essential when compared to someone having a heart attack.

Whilst that's an extreme example, there is funding available for emergency dental treatment - as OP has demonstrated, his daughter was treated there and then... It's there, available for people in pain who may have life threatening infections.

The OP is moaning because their nearest few dentists don't have space on their books to register NHS patients.

I would suggest looking at NHS Choices
Find NHS services in your area
Pop your postcode in and every dentist in the area will pop up and you'll be able to see whether they are accepting new NHS patients or not.

Same goes for GPs - GPs can only have a limited number of patients on their books it's just not feasible for a single handed GP to 'look after' thousands upon thousands of patients - you'd never get an appointment!

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by mick.p.

I think you are getting real memories mixed up with a comedy film you saw as a child here.

Very funny images in my head though.

Mick.

Nah, when I was a kid I sued to sit in between the seats of my dads car rather than sit in a back seat (despite my parents continuously trying to get me to sit in the seat, I was that sort of kid).

He had to emergency brake once, I flew forward and split one of my molars on the gearknob.

My mum took me to the dentist and thats exactly what the woman did, tried to extract it with pliers and a knee on my chest. My Mum stopped her and I ended up at the dentist I'm at now.

My milk teeth were awful, didn't fall our of their own accord and I had to have most of them including molars extracted under anaesthetic. I still have a fang because one of my adult canines started growing in front of my milk one, despite it being really lose the ******* thing just wouldn't come out

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by Annabella

*Shrug*
Children are top of every list, they're almost always considered as 'urgent'. Same with dentistry, hence why you were able to see an emergency dentist. You'll also find that your child's dental care in completely free of charge, where as an adult has to pay a fixed tariff. AND she was seen and treated there and then. I'm struggling to see what your issue is...

We're hugely fortunate in this country that healthcare is free at the point of delivery and funded entirely by the state.

Dentists are all private contractors. There are only a very small number directly employed by the NHS (and these are usually found in Dental Hospitals). So the 'difference' between private and 'nhs' dentists is none existent, they are one and the same.

My issue is that she is due a checkup now,and until we see a nhs dentist any problems will not be found.will it be too late when the f****ys at the local healthcare trust decide to give her a place?It,s not that she wasn,t seen asap it,s the fact that preventative care is now not available to her

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by symon

I don't agree with the bit where it says that dentistry isn't essential care.

I am sure other people who have had toothache wouldn't either.


Not only that some teeth complications can develop into life threatening problems, normally if infections spread.

Yep agree with you 100%,

[RONHULLOCK]

Originally Posted by Annabella

Regular dental care isn't essential.

Having your annual check up and a scrape and polish isn't essential when compared to someone having a heart attack.

Whilst that's an extreme example, there is funding available for emergency dental treatment - as OP has demonstrated, his daughter was treated there and then... It's there, available for people in pain who may have life threatening infections.

The OP is moaning because their nearest few dentists don't have space on their books to register NHS patients.

I would suggest looking at NHS Choices
Find NHS services in your area
Pop your postcode in and every dentist in the area will pop up and you'll be able to see whether they are accepting new NHS patients or not.

Same goes for GPs - GPs can only have a limited number of patients on their books it's just not feasible for a single handed GP to 'look after' thousands upon thousands of patients - you'd never get an appointment!

Tried that(nhs choices) nearest one is an 80 mile round trp

[tul66]

Originally Posted by RONHULLOCK

Tried that(nhs choices) nearest one is an 80 mile round trp

Don't see what the issue is then, it's not that far

[RONHULLOCK]

Your just saying that to wind me up some more,right?I live in the biggest city in cumbria and the t**ts want me to do a 80 mile round trip to a small town in northumberland,to see an nhs dentist.Who the ****** planned that then.Even a halfwit would see that thats not a good idea. Get the dental care in the place where a large amont of people live and is easiest to get to, THE CITY!